21-10-2002 21:11									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

DeepO,

I think the CFC rules indicate that all victory conditions must be enabled. Still, there are ways around the culture issue, if you really want to (selling high-culture improvements, mobilization).

Re: the Pyramids. That's the best way to do it! I never build the Pyramids (well, almost never), but I love capturing them.

You luxury situation was great for a huge map, and if you had taken down England (which I would have done, no question about it) you would have been all set for UP (I consider 6 enough, though I prefer 7 or 8).

-Arrian

	21-10-2002 21:21									#62
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Ah, thanks for the CFC rules explanation, I didn't know that. I'm not registered at that site, and don't follow it that well either, I only know of the HoF, something 'poly doesn't have. But anyway, scores aren't that well balanced, there are other ways of comparing games. Only the minimap animation Theseus had posted a few pages up should give him an extra 1000 points on that game

One question, though: why is mobilization good? Don't you gain culture at that time? Or are you only disallowed to build cultural buildings? Because the only way I was going to sell all my cultural buildings was by putting my lux spendings way up, all those cathedrals sure were helping keeping all my cities (with few exceptions) in WLTKD.

Oh well, maybe not an official CFC high score then, but still, there was a lot of potential in this game. And even now, my game would be ranked 3rd, which is also not that bad...

DeepO

	21-10-2002 22:22									#63
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

DeepO,

You mean Sir Ralph's minimap movie of his ever-expanding pink blob? Yeah, that should be worth some extra points.

Mobilization: all of your cultural improvements generate 1/2 the culture they normally would. So if your civ is pumping out 500 culture per turn, it would drop to around 250 (I'm not sure, but could check easily enough, of what happens with 3cpt improvements like libraries).

It's a pain because you can only build military type buildings or units until you get out of mobilization, and that can only happen by going to war and then making peace. However, in your game, you could have mobilized, waited a pretty long time (there isn't much to build between factories/hospitals/police stations and the modern era) and then hit that island civ (was that England, did you say?), wasted them in 5 turns or so, and de-mobilized.

It's not a perfect fix, and it's kinda cheesy (I don't use it), but it would help you milk a game.

-Arrian

	21-10-2002 22:31									#64
	Suffering from ads?

Oh, one other method I had considered:

selling the temples in my "core" cities. These would be producing 4cpt, and would only take 1 turn to rebuild (30 shields, no problem!). Once rebuilt, they would be "new" and only produce 2cpt. Clearly, this could also be done with the libraries (probably 2 turns to replace in most cities) and cathedrals (same). Hell, any improvement that has doubled due to age.

-Arrian

	21-10-2002 22:50									#65
	Tired of ads?

Ouch... I switched names, of course it's Sir Ralphs mini map... sorry about that.

The mobilization seems an interesting tactic, I'll surely check it out. I was thinking of selling off old buildings too, however I thought you had to sell the cathedrals before selling temples. Never tried to do it, as said, milking is not something I do often. One thing that will almost certainly help is to go for smaller cities by spacing them closer then normal (I create some overlap between cities, but most of the times they can stil grow to 15-18 without running out of food), this means you don't need cathedrals and temples as your 8 luxuries and a marketplace are enough for a WLTKD. Those 6 happy faces each cathedral produces is not something to forget easily, in the best cities you need 20% lux setting to have the same effect. But then again, if you are a full age in front, you can put your tech setting lower and lux higher, the AIs won't catch up in tech. Certainly not when they are under attack

Hmmm... I think I'm going to try a no domination, no culture game... I don't care if it won't be official, I'd just like to see how much I can squeeze out of the scoring system without having to resort to the kind of micromanaging milking requires.

DeepO

	22-10-2002 02:30									#66
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Great game... I think it all stemmed from the Archer Rushes, which, in both hurting your neighbors and strengthening you, started a self-reinforcing loop resulting in a "Killer DeepO Civ."

Re Armies:

I don;t think I've ever put an Archer in one, although I would consider adding an LB to a Sword-level Army.

I only do 2x Armies with Sword-level and Knight-level units... If I'm on the fastmover track, and generate a GL with a Horseman, I'll probably just put in that one elite, wait for a 1 hp opportunity, and take my chances.

It makes sense for Samurai, too, in either offensive or specialty defensive roles. If offensive, you're typically going to continue with Cavs... adding a Cav to 2x Samurai is a helluva beast. If for some reason you want the Army to go defensive (for instance, as a Cav-catcher... never done it, but an interesting idea) adding a Rifleman would be pretty effective.

Heathen scum.

	22-10-2002 02:38									#67
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I tend to avoid making horseman armies, only because horsies can be upgraded. I do make knight-level armies, just because they remain powerful for some time (horsies are worthless ones pikes are around). Cav armies are just awesome.

I tend to make sword armies, and have taken to just putting in 2x swords, because if I can find a 1hp spear or archer or something, I can be 99% sure that 2x sword will kill it. Then I can add something better later (longbow would be a decent choice, but I rarely have any of those).

I have made an archer army. They are weak, and have a very short shelf-life, but when I did make my archer army, it was all about the timing. It allowed me to build the HE really, really early, such that it was built before my next war (mass horse rush, backed with sword. Result: the GoUP, as posted in this forum).

The thing is that during the age of Cavalry, I only go after "soft" targets: weak civs that my Cav can crush easily. This is because I'm concentrating on other things on the homefront (RRs, factories, hospitals, police stations, Univ Suff, ToE, Hoover) and cannot really provide many reinforcements. So extending the shelf-life of my ancient/medieval armies isn't important.

Once I have industrialized, the Mil. Academy will pump out empty armies to be filled and used as needed. Example: the 3xTank+1mech inf armies I mentioned. Man, did those rock!

-Arrian

	22-10-2002 02:52									#68
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Notice how all the UP discussions center around very ancient warfare?

Archer Army... I'd have to vote 3x (hell, why not), and I'd only use it on a damaged Warrior or Archer. I'd probably disband it after, for a quick Marketplace.

	22-10-2002 04:09									#69
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I found the reason why the last game went a lot better archer rushing: it was on a normal landmass, continent map. Most of my builder games are on high landmass continent maps, which means you have / need time to reach the AIs, making archer rushes less powerfull. It's easier to wait for horsies then... I tried a few starts tonight, and in each I went squarely for the archer rush, while beelining for horseback riding (upgrading carts), but I never was able to take on 3 civs with those archers. I think that has been the key, not only a archer rush (this has become quite normal), but 3 succesful archer rushes.

2x archer army: I just needed the HE, and if I recall I lost it to a 1 HP spearman in a city I coudn't reach with other units. Temptation, temptation: use the army with some risk, or wait a few turns until enough reinforcements arrive, meaning the spearman can heal. Well... I betted wrongly.

I too like using cavs on weaker civs, waiting with the stronger ones (espcially those with riflemen!) until tanks. But, in last game there wasn't a choice: the strong civs on my continent all attacked me, instead of the other way around, and once I had the whole continent (over half the available landmass), the game ended. I never left my continent, except for a 1 city island of the Indians, to be sure to eradicate them so I could leave their cities undefended. I had the transports, just no time and surpluss of resources...

BTW: horsemen armies: I made a few, but lost them all quite rapidly. They did gave me the HE though, and a few tough defenders as well. So, that was a good bet to take in my game.

DeepO