17-10-2002 00:40									#31
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quote: Originally posted by GodKing Can we let the specifics of this issue rest now.

Listen to GodKing -- the man's wise .

quote: In general terms, people have been asking now for the past 2 months just what role should deputies and substitutes have. This just help examplify this situation. Con. Congress......?

Con. Congress's current draft proposes the following system:
* Any minister can appoint deputy ministers, which have as much power as the Minister has given them (I believe the document specifies publically, but am not sure).
* Any minister may select one Deputy as 'vice' minister, who has the full power of the Minister. The document says that the Vice Minister may not override the Minister's posted orders unless it meets the normal condition -- Situation has changed and the orders have become harmful/inappropriate. It's unstated but understood (I think, anyway) that the Minister could give the Vice-Minister the power to override his orders but the Vice-Minister doesn't have this power otherwise.

With the exception of the Vice-Minister, boilerplate stuff basically.

Hope this clears things up a bit .

-- adaMada

	17-10-2002 03:01									#32
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quote: Originally posted by adaMada Listen to GodKing -- the man's wise . Con. Congress's current draft proposes the following system: * Any minister can appoint deputy ministers, which have as much power as the Minister has given them (I believe the document specifies publically, but am not sure). * Any minister may select one Deputy as 'vice' minister, who has the full power of the Minister. The document says that the Vice Minister may not override the Minister's posted orders unless it meets the normal condition -- Situation has changed and the orders have become harmful/inappropriate. It's unstated but understood (I think, anyway) that the Minister could give the Vice-Minister the power to override his orders but the Vice-Minister doesn't have this power otherwise. With the exception of the Vice-Minister, boilerplate stuff basically. Hope this clears things up a bit . -- adaMada

Speaking of the NewCon... and I honestly don't mean to be overly annoying, but when do you think we'll finally see this thing in public?

It seems that we've had numerous issues of late where the response from the Con Con has been "just wait for the NewCon to come out, it'll fix everything! ", but we have yet to see the NewCon... Aside from the fact that no system is likely to fix all of the problems, our current problems are going unattended, in part, because of a faith that the NewCon will come out soon and at least fix many of our problems...

So I guess what I'm saying is that the Con Con needs to either get this NewCon too us sooner or we to just take matters into our own hands and start passing amendments now (like UnOrthOdOx started).

I hate to be the pessimist, but the "don't worry, the NewCon is coming out soon and will fix everything" line is getting terribly old...

	17-10-2002 03:21									#33
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Anyone trying to take the entire role of CP on himself is bound to make mistakes, and i know that, i made ample mistakes, but i think things went pretty smoothly in the end. The main problem of The CP, especially a replacememts, is how to act upon advice/ RA orders and still manage to feel you control all the aspects of CP. This is why i can understand if E_T made a mistake, but what i feel from what GF posted here, and also E_T's post, is that E_T is trying to take it all to himslef, and this has two downsides:
1)he can make more mistakes this way (apparently he didn't had many, but still there are few, like the Ivory isue an)

2) he might lose the RA's trust in him, and without RA, this far into the game with so many cities, the CP simply can't function.
things should be straightend out between GF and E_T, as he is going to be the next CP, some new and clear standards on posting of orders and the way in which these orders are carried out.

Also, the issue of PM's should be taken for granted, IMO, everything important that the public could have an opinion of, should be posted clearly enough, I'm sad (if) this is not the way.

	17-10-2002 03:26									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Speaking of the NewCon... and I honestly don't mean to be overly annoying, but when do you think we'll finally see this thing in public? **snip snip**

Any chance you haven't read the entire forum today? (It's ok, I'll forgive you, the number of topped posts are making things harder to find).

-- adaMada

	17-10-2002 03:33									#35
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quote: Originally posted by adaMada Any chance you haven't read the entire forum today? (It's ok, I'll forgive you, the number of topped posts are making things harder to find). -- adaMada

A. I don't see it topped
B. I don't see it at all

Now, this very well could be a recurance of the mysterious "cloaking threads" phenomenon...

EDIT: Yup, it must be another cloaking thread... I can link to the "New Constitution" thread from the first post in the "New Constitution Discussion" thread, but I can't find the thread anywhere on the list of threads...

	17-10-2002 03:53									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos A. I don't see it topped B. I don't see it at all Now, this very well could be a recurance of the mysterious "cloaking threads" phenomenon... EDIT: Yup, it must be another cloaking thread... I can link to the "New Constitution" thread from the first post in the "New Constitution Discussion" thread, but I can't find the thread anywhere on the list of threads...

Arnelos,
It's on page two for me, titled "The New Constitution". (Down that far already since Togas asked that no one post in it).

-- adaMada

	17-10-2002 04:24									#37
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quote: Originally posted by adaMada Arnelos, It's on page two for me, titled "The New Constitution". (Down that far already since Togas asked that no one post in it). -- adaMada

Well, I can't find it on the list of threads, but I can still link to it from the discussion thread - so that worked .

Please go read my comments on it in the discussion thread... I really only have one gripe (though I'm long-winded about explaining it ).

	17-10-2002 04:27									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Well, I can't find it on the list of threads, but I can still link to it from the discussion thread - so that worked . Please go read my comments on it in the discussion thread... I really only have one gripe (though I'm long-winded about explaining it ).

Arnelos,
I've read it... I may respond sooner or later, but I'd rather let Togas respond first, since nearly all the wording is his. He did a great job on it, but I honestly don't know about the case you brought up, so I'm going to wait until he's commented.

-- adaMada

	17-10-2002 05:24									#39
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I fully agree. I NEED to know new worker construction trades, and captures. According to the reports posted on this forum we have captured a total of 1 Persian worker, built one, and traded for none in the entire term of OPD. That is sad that we have only gained one worker in an entire term considering the amount of jungle clearing and mine building we have before us.

I forgot to mention it in my report, but the first two turns of yesterday we bought two workers from France, thanks in part to E_T. We also checked for new workers each turn. E_T and a couple others did that while I carried out PW, CP, SMC orders that were already given.

	17-10-2002 11:56									#40
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Copy of my post in the CP election thread:

quote: quote: Originally posted by Aro This is very serious to me. ET is virtually elected, and must explain this. Ghengis is a respectable and very important citizen, and a minister, and I firmly believe he's telling the truth. So, ET, what have you to say about this? I was in the process of answering this issue last night. I was cutting & pasteing (and editing out things that were of a personal/confidential nature) all of my corrospondences between myself, GK, GF and others. I kept on loosing it when I'd go to the preveiw screen (to make sure quotes where right) and back to the edit page, while doing other PM's at the same time. After being almost done the second time (at 3AM my time), I gave up and went to bed. I was planning to work on this issue this evening, but I had no DSL connection (Sprint wasn't talking to me ISP). I only just got back online now. I will say one thing at this time, In a PM to me from GK, about some things I'll need to do with the CP job, was to watch some threads for issues that would consern the job. I do admit the I am guilty of that, as either time pressures, RL & interest in the subject of the thread (partly because of my other job in the FAM), they didn't seem that they would consern me. quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb For the record it does not appear to be as bad as I had originally thought. Apparently GodKing and Zeit never passed the orders to ET and ET had to make the orders from scratch and had no previous orders to go on. I will still post the corrospondences and sequences of events surrounding this issue, if anyone is interested. I plan on having A common thread for public posting between only myself, the RA's & other govm't officials (The Contractors Office). I also plan on having regular Information/general discussion (Construction Shack) threads for public discussion, that will be linked to in the Contractors Office Thread. This is so that, if something happens and someone has to take over for me, this kind of thing won't happen to them. I apoligize to anyone who's feathers that I have ruffled, especially Ghengis as I will have to work closely with him as MoPW next term.

If this does become a court issue, I will provide copies, unedited copies of all of the PM's to the court. I will also publish (if the public so wishes) the PM's (editing out items that are of a personal/confidential nature and not relevent to this issue) to this thread, as the election thread will be closed soon.

I hope that this issue can be put aside and that we can continue with the game, as I will have to work with GF in this next term. But I have a feeling that it's not. I await the publics & courts wishes.

E_T