18-10-2002 22:24									#31
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker Well, I ALWAYS stick it out to the bitter end becuase I reckon "Hell, if the real-life Egyptians could make a go of a DESERT, then I can't complain!" . What surprises me, though, is that no-one has voted for "whines that Civ3 sucks" option, given the number of people who do claim it sucks here on the forum! . Yours, The_Aussie_Lurker.

Sorry to throw a spanner into your argument, but 2500 years ago Egypt was a lush tropical landscape.



There is extensive water erosion on the sphinx, a sign of regular rainfall, something that doesn't exist in the are nowadays. Add to that the fact that heiroglyphics (sp?) show animals that no longer reside in the area, and would need a lush environment to survive in. Plus, well, there is their written history that tells us what Egypt was like back then.....

	19-10-2002 00:01									#32
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So, was Moses crossing a desert or not?

	19-10-2002 00:44									#33
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quote: Originally posted by -proletarian- Sorry to throw a spanner into your argument, but 2500 years ago Egypt was a lush tropical landscape.

I'm not sure you could ever call it a lush tropical paradise. For thousands of years, virtually the enitre Egyptian population has lived along the banks of the Nile or in the delta -- outside of a narrow corridor along both sides of the Nile, desert ruled and rules.

Even today the Nile River Delta area -- north of Cairo where the Nile fans out into a delta -- is pretty green, especially considering most people think of Egypt as all sand. Also, even today, the banks of the Nile (for several miles deep on each side) are often quite green and vegetated -- and this after the building of the Aswan Dam which eliminated the annual flooding along the Nile (an important source of plant nutrients, not just water). Though I don't claim any particular expertise on ancient Egyptian weather patterns and geography, it seems to me that the Nile (and virtually the Nile alone) has made Egypt hospitable to man for thousands of years -- and only with close proximity to the Nile were there areas that might be called "lush."

Catt

	19-10-2002 11:29									#34
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Catt is right. That's why Herodotus called Egypt "a gift from the Nile".

	27-02-2003 11:53									#35
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Bad starting locations are challenging, but I also think of them as 'annoying'.

I had this one game, which some of you may find not bad at all. Well, it really isn't that bad in the beginning. Lots of grassland.
But I was the only player in this tiny continent (or a large island). There were NO rivers and NO hills. Only two mountains in the tundra.
And all the five islands/minicontinets I've so far found had only one luxury and one iron. Great.

Here's a zoomed-out pic...

Attachment: badstart1.png
This has been downloaded 129 time(s).

	27-02-2003 11:57									#36
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Oh, and I was playing the japanese, so my military trait came to be really handy

Here's a mini-map of the world a couple of turns later, when I met all other civs... my capitol has a red dot on it.

It's not very good anymore for me.

I don't have enough productive cities...

Attachment: worldmap.png
This has been downloaded 127 time(s).

	27-02-2003 17:01									#37
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I must start on a river.

BTW, aago, I kind of like your little islands. Looks interesting but you have a point.

BTW again: do you never irrigate tiles?

	27-02-2003 17:04									#38
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Yes I do. But I had no other means of making shields, so that's why I mined them all. Not the one single cow included (which is irrigated) under the name Tokyo.

	27-02-2003 18:56									#39
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Why haven't you connected silks to your trade network? You have four silks in your main island, including the one at the southern tip (south of Nagasaki).

	27-02-2003 21:34									#40
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I enjoy REXing the most when playing civ, so I often restart until after the REX phase, the game seems interesting. My starting point is irrelevant, though rivers are nice.

	27-02-2003 23:45									#41
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I am not good enough to compensate for a lot of terrible terrain or a very small island. But since I play on a huge map setting, I will explore and expand a good while before starting over.

	28-02-2003 00:21									#42
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hi ,

well moving a couple tiles can improve things , .....

if it still sucks then the plug is pulled , .....

have a nice day

	28-02-2003 01:36									#43
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Banana!!!

	28-02-2003 05:19									#44
	Put an end to popups!

I play on unless I find I'm stuck in a huge jungle, surrounded by mountains, or have no way to irrigate my early cities.

	28-02-2003 08:07									#45
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It depends on how bad the terrain is, for me. If it is lots of Tundra or Mountains, ba-bye. But, a desert becomes a little more interesting, specially because 95% of my games I have a start position on a river, and at least 80% are inland and not on beach coast.

	28-02-2003 11:18									#46
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quote: Why haven't you connected silks to your trade network? You have four silks in your main island, including the one at the southern tip (south of Nagasaki).

I have, the one just under the name Kyoto... you just can't see it in this zoomed out pic...

	28-02-2003 14:44									#47
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I look around for twenty turns or so.

	28-02-2003 22:36									#48
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk I look around for twenty turns or so.

hi ,

thats a lot , ......

have a nice day

	01-03-2003 02:22									#49
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hi ,

It's not that much, considering that in crappy starts, you typically build your first warrior on turn 7-8, maybe on turn 10. That is typically what I wait before restarting too!

have a nice day!

--Kon--

	01-03-2003 18:43									#50
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Depends on the terrain and difficulty settings. If you're playing good terrain settings with lots of grasslands, starting in a desert is an instant restart. On the other hand, if your terrain settings are arid/cold/3 billion (the masochist combo), being able to count 8 food and 5-6 production when your capital reaches size 3 is very good regardless of the terrain.

Then again, you might come across the situation I had in such a game, I had a capital with no grasslands - it was all hills, desert and flood plains, I made a go of it and got to 3 cities. Then I met the Zulu, they had 7 cities already. Ouch. See you later, Shaka.

	01-03-2003 21:28									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 hi , It's not that much, considering that in crappy starts, you typically build your first warrior on turn 7-8, maybe on turn 10. That is typically what I wait before restarting too! have a nice day! --Kon--

hi ,

agreed , but twenty turns , ..... thats either a restart or an other civ , .....

have a nice day

	02-03-2003 11:14									#52
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I look around a bit, maybe play it for ten or fifteen minutes, then decide. Sometimes I take a chance, and have good luck. Sometimes not.

I voted banana, but is it okay if I have a plaintain instead? I promise I'll fry it.

	02-03-2003 21:03									#53
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Since I´m allergic, eating a banana would count as suicide...

	06-03-2003 06:01									#54
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so eat the banana, and restart

i must admit, i restart a lot. i'm an unabashed ocd builder, so if i don't have enough room to spread out in peace, i just keep restarting till i do.

	10-03-2003 02:06									#55
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I restart. Often!

	11-03-2003 02:19									#56
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Real men don't restart!

Did John Wayne ever restart?


I don't think so.......

	14-03-2003 07:49									#57
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aaglo you should occupy that island to your east asap and squeeze as much as you can out of it. You can still win the game but you need to do a lot of diplomacy and later on some conquest. You have a lot of silks... perhaps that will help you if they are scarce elsewhere.

	14-03-2003 11:51									#58
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Now that's talking, ACooper!!

Real men don't restart at least for 40 turns

Just because a starting position is bad doesn't mean all is lost. It is more fun, and more rewarding, to rise up to the challange.

	15-03-2003 04:14									#59
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quote: Originally posted by ACooper Real men don't restart! Did John Wayne ever restart? I don't think so.......

John Wayne had a script

	15-03-2003 05:53									#60
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quote: Real men don't restart!

Well, maybe real men don't restart, but a perspicable man knows when he is doomed. The renewing man likes restarting just for fun, and the fantasy tale man would like Lords of Magic more than Civ3.

Anyway, the challenge is good, but most times I don't feel like it.