26-10-2002 02:31									#31
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Jaybe,

Ack! That sounds like one helluva war!

I've never had my gov't collapse due to WW either, but I have a friend who plays on larger maps and it has happened to him several times. He says there is little way of predicting it, since you can jack luxury spending up high enough to keep people happy, but the gov't will go down anyway.

As an aside, I'm astounded he lets that happen, since he nearly always plays religious civs (Egypt, Iroquois). Just switch to Monarchy or Commie... hell, once you're at 30 or 40% luxury spending, Monarchy is probably more economically viable anyway.

-Arrian

	26-10-2002 02:52									#32
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Jaybe - WW can be quite a surprise -- I think the 45% is less important than the total luxury spending / entertainers needed to keep citizens happy (maybe check quickly by having no entertainers and turning luxury to zero just to see your total unhappy population unmasked by happiness spending?).

Several times I have had absolutely no instances of civil disorder (i.e., sufficient luxury spending / entertainers) to keep my cities seemingly content, when BOOM! all of a sudden next turn anarchy hits without warning. Painful.

quote: Originally posted by Arrian As an aside, I'm astounded he lets that happen, since he nearly always plays religious civs (Egypt, Iroquois). Just switch to Monarchy or Commie... hell, once you're at 30 or 40% luxury spending, Monarchy is probably more economically viable anyway.

The times when I have gone into anarchy due to WW (hasn't happened in a while), I was always a religious civ, and I think I can understand why I might play it as your fried does. I found I didn't worry too much about the anarchy since I knew it would be one turn, and would just as soon ride out my democracy for as long as possible until I had to take my medicine (1 turn anarchy). A switch to Monarchy and later back to Democracy would cost me 2 turns, I always figured if I could avoid it why not? Perhaps something would occur that would end the war before my revolution? As long as the cost of luxury spending wasn't absolutely wrecking my economy, a looming WW revolution presented no real penalty to my religious civ.

Catt

	26-10-2002 03:17									#33
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Catt,

Oh, yeah, good point. Silly me.

-Arrian

	26-10-2002 03:57									#34
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It has been a 25-turn war so far (1868-1918). I have 12 more turns of the war to go because of my alliance. I have all luxuries, only 10% entertainment, and 87% approval (F11). I'm in a republic and hopefully THIS war will be over just before I get MA. Meanwhile, I am trying to not lose units, take a few strategic locations, and pillage, pillage, pillage.

Speaking of pillaging: I have control of the seas. BBs, DDs (both with blitz) and carrier-based bombers destroy improvements. When enemy workers come to repair things by the coast, my marines are standing by offshore. They snatch the workers and I have an MI support the marines until I extract them (single marines don't last long against a determined attack by tanks, or even other marines).

	26-10-2002 04:24									#35
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You just made me miss the old happy display in Civ2 that would show your pop at each level. With no lux/ent/wonder/whatever, then a line for the improvements affects, so you knew exactly what you got for your expense.

	28-10-2002 01:18									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe When enemy workers come to repair things by the coast, my marines are standing by offshore. They snatch the workers and I have an MI support the marines until I extract them (single marines don't last long against a determined attack by tanks, or even other marines).

Nice...

	30-12-2002 00:13									#37
	Put an end to popups!

Hi Gang -
Hope this thread is still open, 'cause I just now gathered some data on Great Leaders that I've been meaning to get for a long time, and I would like some feedback on it.

I've always had a hard time getting GLs, so I kept track in the last two games, both with the Japanese. According to some threads I've read but wasnt able to find right now, a GL should come up about every 16 elite wins w/o the Heroic Epic and about 1 every 12 or 13 with the HE (if anyone can steer me back to that thread, I'd appreciate it- I think it involved someone at Firaxis telling how it worked). I started keeping track in my previous game, and got the following # of Elite wins between each single GL:

26, GL, 25, GL, game ended soon after

Kept track in next (current) game:

2, GL (great luck! - but then...), 28, GL, 17, GL, 25, GL, up to 19 w/o getting my next.

Except for the 17, these reaults seem remarkably consistent, and It feels like this is very similar to what I normally get. But isn't this too low a frequency? Am I doing something wrong? I'm not holding GLs (or didnt count elite wins during the short time that I did hold a couple of times).

Both these games are on Monarch level, and I'm playing version 1.14 - yes, I know - I'm still learning this game and didnt want to change anything until I get pretty far along. I just stepped up to Monarch and won the first and am winning the second (current) game, so I may upgrade soon. I've already bought PTW but havent loaded it. BTW - (off topic) do I have to patch up from 1.14 to load PTW or will it patch my Civ III automatically?

Thanks for any insight into the GL behavior. Or anything else.

GarP
(mostly lurking, but may have something to contribute one of these days)
Civ player from the beginning of the series

	30-12-2002 00:48									#38
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Like I mentioned in another post, you literally need a thousand trials to get realistic leader odds. Statistics almost guarantees that in 100 trials you will NOT have average results.

That first game was pretty bad, with 25 battlers per leader. Your current game is better, only 22 battles per leader.

Welcome to the forum by the way!