01-11-2002 07:24									#31
	Suffering from ads?

NYE, I haven't got the game yet. I was simply replying to his statement.

I have a 56K connection, so MP is probably going to be a lot of frustration.

Are there enough SP enhancements to make it worth getting?

ACK!

	01-11-2002 07:35									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Tuberski NYE, I haven't got the game yet. I was simply replying to his statement. I have a 56K connection, so MP is probably going to be a lot of frustration. Are there enough SP enhancements to make it worth getting? ACK!

Ouch with the 56K. Internet MP would not be a good reason for you to buy it. However, PBEM, LAN and hot seat are pretty solid.

SP enhancements? Depends on what you want. New civs? New UUs (the Berserks kick *ss)? New orders? New Worker actions? Air ranges up to 256? A better editor and improved mod management? There is a lot there to choose from. I would say that most dedicated Civ3 players should get it, but that is a choice for each individual.

	01-11-2002 08:52									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

LOL. I love all of the rant threads. You're the same people who bought Civ3 when it first came out. I think THAT was @ 1.07 when released. It had lots of sucky features(corruption anyone) and finally patched up to 1.29. But everyone still bought it! Firaxis listened to the *****ing, patched the program, and opened Beta testing up to a lucky few....but now you're suprised that a 1.04 is buggy ? Sit back and wait for them patches....


BTW, I notice(on the back of my out of date Civ3 manual) that Infogrames is putting out Moo3...will they learn from their mistakes ? Place your bets

	01-11-2002 09:07									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Zamphyr LOL. I love all of the rant threads. You're the same people who bought Civ3 when it first came out. I think THAT was @ 1.07 when released. It had lots of sucky features(corruption anyone) and finally patched up to 1.29. But everyone still bought it! Firaxis listened to the *****ing, patched the program, and opened Beta testing up to a lucky few....but now you're suprised that a 1.04 is buggy ? Sit back and wait for them patches.... BTW, I notice(on the back of my out of date Civ3 manual) that Infogrames is putting out Moo3...will they learn from their mistakes ? Place your bets

Infogrames is publishing, not programming.

ACK!

	01-11-2002 09:11									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

So let me get this straight:

If you use a router to access the internet, you shouldn't bother getting the game because you won't be able to join any games.

But, if you have a dial-up connection, you also shouldn't bother getting the game, because lag times will be too great.

But, you can play by e-mail.

And hey, if you want to buy the game, show some patience, and find out what works and what doesn't, it will be lots of fun.

This sounds suspiciously like the fake SNL commercial extolling the virtues of "Log". "Log" was great software, too, by the standard being advanced here: if you stare at it long enough, you will see spots in front of your eyes, and the spots are pretty colors - so if you just have some patience, you might have some fun!

I'm happy I haven't spent the money on this yet. I can't foresee any situation, for the rest of my life, where I will ever again access the internet using anything but networked computer access through a router [not even for an hour or a day] so I guess there is no point to buying this game.

	01-11-2002 10:16									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Nikolai I hope it'll get better... It did so with the original game, didn't it?

Only one way to go from the bottom

	01-11-2002 10:31									#37
	Got spare money?

I'm confident in Firaxis' ability to fix these problems and patch everything up (No pun intended, I swear )

	01-11-2002 12:34									#38
	Inflate your Upload Space

The argument that the game is playable with opponents with low pings (i.e. in a close geographical location) is utter bull****. I don't want to make any enemies here (especially any regulars on Apolyton, for whom I have nothing but the utmost respect), but I've played Counter-Strike with 31 players from Germany to Australia with minimal lag (and I'm in Eastern Canada). Something can be done for MP in Play the World. I'm hoping the next patch comes soon.


Dominae

	01-11-2002 14:08									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yes Dominae. You are right about other games performing better.

I too hope that Firaxis can stick around and make Internet MP much better. The game deserves it. I think they will. I'm sure they want to.

However, in the meantime there are a few things you can do to enjoy gaming against humans. The suggestions are spread over these forums the last few days.

	01-11-2002 21:51									#40
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Infogrames is publishing, not programming.

I know, my point was that it I would guess the programmers knew that the game was still laggy. So either someone high up at Firaxis OK'd the game for release or they were pressured by the publishers(Infogrames) they are under contract to. It's a business world.....

	01-11-2002 22:53									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Infogrames is publishing, not programming.

That doesnt justify them releasing crap games. Would you publish non-working crap?

	01-11-2002 23:03									#42
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Ouch with the 56K. Internet MP would not be a good reason for you to buy it. However, PBEM, LAN and hot seat are pretty solid. SP enhancements? Depends on what you want. New civs? New UUs (the Berserks kick *ss)? New orders? New Worker actions? Air ranges up to 256? A better editor and improved mod management? There is a lot there to choose from. I would say that most dedicated Civ3 players should get it, but that is a choice for each individual.

@ notyoueither:
A Question.
I've seen a few comments here and there in posts about changes in the behavior of both Barbarians and also, in general, the ai itself. Any comments here? More importantly, if the ai is more aggressive/Barbs more clever etc, whatever, are these changes customizable or moddable in the ?upgraded? editor? Thanks for your commets. PM me if you would rather not clog up the thread. Arigato!

Sorry [FX]Roman, not trying to jack your thread, just really jonesing to get input from the beta testers who are posting. Haven't gotten the game and in fact regarding MP, will not- I'm a SP person only (regardless of the tech problems with MP). Trying to see if the game is worth plunking down $$$ for under those considerations. Some of the features sounded good and others I am not so sure of ...

	01-11-2002 23:07									#43
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Thanks nye, I'm going to try to get a decent game going this weekend, when more people will be online and my chances of finding good pings will be better.


Dominae

	01-11-2002 23:11									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Oh, I would also like to add another thing:


I just played another game. I wanted to make sure that I wasn't totally ranting this game out of the water, when it did not deserve it. Let me set stage:

My Comp:
AMD2100
512 DDR 2700
60Gig 7200rpm
geForce 4 4600 (not really an issue).
Good cable connection

This is just to rule out the fact that you cannot pin it down on the fact that I may have a slow or otherwise bad computer. In any case, I think it comes down to your ping, and the ping of other players, duh.

That having been said, I wanted to find another player with a decent ping(~120-180), which I did in fact find. A guy by the name of AquaKing, or something to that effect. Anyhow, to test the game out, even in the most of minimum settings, I hosted a game on a tiny map, with my well-pinged friend, myself, and two computers.

Well, we got to the staging room, still a bit more laggy than the lobby, wtf? How could a chat room be laggy. I set up the options, and launched the game, and after ten seconds the game had begun our regicide match.

**Waiting for other players**
Im surprised this still happens. It did not take as long to synch him in, but it still happened, and took longer than it should have taken. Sub-par.

Whats this? Im able to move, how novel. Surprised with this feat I began to play just as normal. So I built a city(this was turnless). Did not seem so bad...

Time to move my worker.... *GASP*
I quickly alt+tabbed out, went to "run" and typed "dxdiag"

Yup, it was certain, I still had a 1.73Ghz processor. But, the game made me feel like I had an old pentium Pro. WTF. Not only did the conectivity suffer (that goes without saying, of course), but, it SEEMED like my system slowed down, too! Absurd.

I can't believe there are copies of this game, in boxes, on shelves, in stores... waiting to be bought by someone hankering to play some multiplayer.


What is wrong with you; Friaxis + Infrogames?

	02-11-2002 02:03									#45
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Anyone have anything in reply to that?

	02-11-2002 02:19									#46
	Suffering from ads?

deleted

Last edited by WarpStorm on 02-11-2002 at 04:29

	02-11-2002 02:24									#47
	Got spare money?

Well, until some of the issues are worked out maybe it is a stretch calling in 'Play the World'. Looks like we are lucky if we can 'Play in our City'. Unfortunately it is a marketing ploy/schedule that has yet to reach it's intended audience because the implementation appears to be unoptimized to this point of time.

A hosted TCP/IP version would have allowed for a more robust model to be developed but that is only my opinion. I always felt that the primary version of Civ3 needed alot of the basics ironed out before a network version was feasible. Things like scraping the on screen button rearrangement and subsequent redraw with every worker movement would have been a very good place to start with optimizations. Minimizing the amount of information that has to be transmitted to each node in the game and the subsequent speed that that information can be transformed to what the user actually sees and can interact with can overcome many of the so called lag issues.

	02-11-2002 03:24									#48
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: ... A hosted TCP/IP version would have allowed for a more robust model ...

News Flash: Direct IP on the way (see the Apolyton:Civ3 News)

	02-11-2002 04:17									#49
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by [FX]Roman That doesnt justify them releasing crap games. Would you publish non-working crap?

It is not non-working crap. It is troublesome-to-get-going-in-INet-MP-for-some-people crap. Get it right.

Oh, and AFAIK Firaxis had a drop dead dead-line from Infogrames. Is that surprising given the season? Furthermore, Firaxis is focusing on Internet MP issues in a patch due 'ASAP'.

Now yes, it sucks that you and others are having severe problems. Would you rather a) wait for a finished and polished MP and wait for everything else as well? or b) get SP, PBEM, Hot Seat, LAN, Editor, etc now and wait for the INet MP patch?

I think I know what you are going to say, but I doubt many agree with you.

	02-11-2002 04:25									#50
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by royfur @ notyoueither: A Question. I've seen a few comments here and there in posts about changes in the behavior of both Barbarians and also, in general, the ai itself. Any comments here? More importantly, if the ai is more aggressive/Barbs more clever etc, whatever, are these changes customizable or moddable in the ?upgraded? editor? Thanks for your commets. PM me if you would rather not clog up the thread. Arigato!

My observations are that the barbs are less likely to attack your units at a severe disadvantage for them and are more likely to move around pillaging if they can't get good odds. Ouch, but an improvement I would say.

The AI Civs seem more agressive. The first time I got Warrior rushed I was a bit stunned.

I am not an editor expert, but I do not think AI and barb behaviour can be adjusted very much in the editor. You can of course give the barbs better units, that would have an effect. You can also monkey with the build preferences and effect the AI that way.

	02-11-2002 05:10									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by [FX]Roman Time to move my worker.... *GASP* I quickly alt+tabbed out, went to "run" and typed "dxdiag" Yup, it was certain, I still had a 1.73Ghz processor.

You mean you actualy ran Direct X Diagnostics to check if you had the same processor, stop being so lame, its obviously the conncetion you or other players have to the server. For ultimate gaming experience consider getting 2Mbit ADSL

	02-11-2002 05:11									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I think with the PTW release, they should have at least releasedn an editor like civedit, but this one should be called netcode edit.

I'm sure we could get the game running better, sooner than the original makers... Hmmpf.


PS; rob.derosa :

Actually, I didnt check my directX. That was a clever sarcastic way of underlining the fact that PTW RUNS LIKE ****. Thanks for comin' out.


Everyone, please stop defending this game. We have all been let down.

Last edited by [FX]Roman on 02-11-2002 at 05:33

	02-11-2002 07:06									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by [FX]Roman Everyone, please stop defending this game. We have all been let down.

Oh, I see, only people complaining about the game should post. They obviously are the only people who matter, right?





ACK!

	02-11-2002 07:10									#54
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by [FX]Roman Actually, I didnt check my directX. That was a clever sarcastic way of underlining the fact that PTW RUNS LIKE ****. Thanks for comin' out. Everyone, please stop defending this game. We have all been let down.

clever? don't pat yourself on the back too hard

we have all been let down? I think not.

	02-11-2002 07:58									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I was not let down , as I did not intend to use the MP part and I am pleased with the new stuff for SP. But then I knew what was coming.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 02-11-2002 at 09:57

	02-11-2002 08:35									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by [FX]Roman Everyone, please stop defending this game. We have all been let down.

Please stop putting words in my mouth. I, for one, was not let down.

	02-11-2002 17:16									#57
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by [FX]Roman Thanks for comin' out.

What... I havn't gone any where, WTF are you talking about?

	02-11-2002 17:17									#58
	Got spare money?

Could someone explain the benefits of the hosted TCP/IP connection? Doesnt that mean that you have to arrange games at a separate site and give out your IP address (if hosting)?

	02-11-2002 19:10									#59
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by [FX]Roman I think with the PTW release, they should have at least releasedn an editor like civedit, but this one should be called netcode edit. I'm sure we could get the game running better, sooner than the original makers... Hmmpf. PS; rob.derosa : Actually, I didnt check my directX. That was a clever sarcastic way of underlining the fact that PTW RUNS LIKE ****. Thanks for comin' out. Everyone, please stop defending this game. We have all been let down.

Whoa FXRoman, u gotta be the most ranting, pissed off player I know. You and a few others keep ranting and repeating yourselves all over the place. PTW will be fine in a week when the new patch comes out. In the mean time you can get some training with SP.

I got a Pentium 3 at 666Mhz and a 56kbp connection. Civ3 runs fine with it. PTW will be fine too. I haven't been let down.

	02-11-2002 20:58									#60
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by [FX]Roman I think with the PTW release, they should have at least releasedn an editor like civedit, but this one should be called netcode edit. I'm sure we could get the game running better, sooner than the original makers... Hmmpf. PS; rob.derosa : Actually, I didnt check my directX. That was a clever sarcastic way of underlining the fact that PTW RUNS LIKE ****. Thanks for comin' out. Everyone, please stop defending this game. We have all been let down.

For someone who claims to hate the game and call it a waste of time an money, you sure are spending a lot of time posting about it.

Internet MP issues aside, the SP improvements are a great enhancement to the game.

I think if anyone is to blame for PTW being released before it has been fully tested and all bugs fixed, it is Infogrames and NOT Firaxis. Firaxis has always made great games, and have the best designers and programmers around.

As a software developer myself, I know the frustration a programmer feels when he/she is forced to release software that he/she knows is sub-par because the people who pay your bills are demanding it be released on a certain date. Firaxis has proven to be very dedicated to their fans, and I am positive they will release fixes to all the major issues ASAP.

As frustrating as this may be, this is how most software releases are done these days, unless you are one of the lucky conglomerates which develop and publish in-house.

The only gaming exception is Blizzard. Yes their games have very few bugs, but they also take SEVERAL years to develop and are expensive as hell. And in my opinion not as fun to play as any of Firaxis' games.