11-11-2002 07:32									#31
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I think the big problem with switching to governers is that it creates competetion among baes for crawler areas, money for hurrying, secret projecxts, etc. Instead of doing whats best for the faction, some may jockey ofr power to increase the strength of their region. There would only beone person mediating these disputes. I like the idea of goverenrs, but why not just keep the current directoretes, and have each give a genraelr outline to each region, and have the goveoer habndle the micromanaging?

	11-11-2002 10:28									#32
	Support Apolyton

Maniac: By not having too many regions. If we have say, five cities a region (this may want to be outlined in the constitution), then we won't need that many more people than we have now, due to the elimination of the two director positions.

I think the DIA should handle base naming still. The DIA has a lot of power, but virtually all its responsibilities are handled by the governors - keeping base naming there will actually give them something to do directly.

DBTS: Do so, but I think appointing governors would be about as fun/useful as electing the Commissioner and having him appoint the Directors.

dmm1285: I certainly see your point, but I think it would be a bit hard to organise. Under this proposal, the governors will only have to answer to one man - and that would be easier than having them answering to several.

	11-11-2002 17:28									#33
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Dmm: you are right but that is for me also part of the plan. to get some more roleplaying in the game...i am not out to win as soon as possible....preferbly i wouldnt win ever....but i think it will increase the activity on the forum...and this would be a DG first time ever...even the governers in de DGc3 are not what we are proposing now

	11-11-2002 19:11									#34
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Darkness' Edge Maniac: By not having too many regions. If we have say, five cities a region (this may want to be outlined in the constitution), then we won't need that many more people than we have now, due to the elimination of the two director positions.

That's reasonable. I guess we should just wait and see how many people offer themselves for a government seat before making a final decision. Should the Commissioner / Alpha Talent create a nominations thread already just to see the interest?

Dmm1285: That's just what I would like! Governors almost only concerned with their own region, and directors needing to have the governors follow certain laws to ensure the common good of the entire faction. Such a tension field increases the level of reality of our democracy a little.

	12-11-2002 20:37									#35
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

This proposal won't have my support as written. In effect, it merges T&C, DIE, and DBP into one uber-Directorate. The Governors are not independent; they have to follow the orders of the Director of Regional Affairs whenever he or she gives those orders. This gives that Director the combined power of three of the most important Directorates. In my opinion, this harms the separation of powers.

In my opinion, Governors should give us more separation of powers, not less. Therefore, I propose that they be elected, and given power over all of the proposed areas as Governors, not as subordinates of a Director of Regional Affairs. This still has some problems, but it doesn't create an uber-Directorate, because instead of dividing by area of responsibility we'll divide by physical area.

	13-11-2002 00:38									#36
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Would you still have a Director of Internal Affairs then?

	13-11-2002 00:50									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I agree wholeheartedly with Adam... we don't want one person being too powerful, and i think the DIA would be. I would say still merge them but elect the Governors and give them powr over their area.

	13-11-2002 00:58									#38
	Full PM-box? Change here!

But without a DIA to pass certain laws and general guidelines to the governors, each region will just care about its own benefit and not that of the entire faction!

	13-11-2002 01:13									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

i was thinking of how 'reall world' politics works in the UK. We have the national ruling body (parliament) and local councils, which do all the day to day work. For example the DIA would say how many Ec each Goveror can use and what the whole country needs building, ie. we need more formers, but it's up to the Governors to decide which fo their bases produce it, and what the exact running order is. When it comes to a severe disagreement its up to the Commisioner or Judges to decide (as is happening here at the moment with The Mayor of London and The Government)

	13-11-2002 01:21									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That sounds about the same as I was thinking. Perhaps in a conflict between the DIA and a governor the Alpha Talent could intervene though - right now the AT doesn't seem to have a lot of work and judges would take too long.

	13-11-2002 02:19									#41
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Drogue that is what i saw in the job of the DIA too....if this didnt come over sorry...and i will write a second draft as soon as possible.....maniac the alpha talent could come between instead of the commissioner or judges

	13-11-2002 06:16									#42
	Support Apolyton

Drogue and Adam have made good points

	13-11-2002 07:26									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

In a conflict between the DIA, the Court could *probably* intervene - even if we have to develop some sort of streamlined process specifically for those disputes.

I'm still for the DIA. This makes it a lot simpler, and they're only answering the one person, instead of answering to a whole heap of different directors - which would be an administrative nightmare.

The DIA really doesn't have that much power. All he does his approve the decisions of his governors, and preferably, they'd have to have a good reason for intervening.

	13-11-2002 14:21									#44
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Nicely put DE. I voted no because it's incomplete because I think who has power and what happens in the case of a dispute needs to be put in the amendment. Also they would have to be elected for me to agree with it in any form.

DBTS: Can we see a new version soon? There seems to be a growing consensus.

	13-11-2002 20:36									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

i will be working on it tomorrow or sunday that is the fasts i can work because of RL but someone else can do the second draft if they want. but please stick to the format I am using....(the constitution is written that way...so it would be easier) about problems solving between DIA and gov. that can be put in article II or V

	16-11-2002 18:47									#46
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

What's the current state of this discussion? Let's resolve it before the next elections.

	16-11-2002 19:03									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

To be honest, with the constitution needing to be amended, the current Directors to come up with areas of control for Goverors, and for people to register their interest seems a little too much to do before the next elections. Especially now Joeno's put up the nomination thread (nicely on time).

	16-11-2002 19:10									#48
	Put an end to popups!

Splitting the territory up in regions costs five minutes for the Alpha Talent. The job of the governor is already quite fixed: the concrete order making of the DTC, DBP and DIE jobs while the DIA does the general polls. And a governor nomination thread can be put up right now along with the director nominations thread. We still have half a month before the governors need to come into action!

	16-11-2002 19:15									#49
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yes, but I think there's already a thread up for each of the DTC, DBP and DIE. Would it be feasable to do mid-term elections (like US House and Senate) for Governors, so not so many elections at once?

	16-11-2002 19:33									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

However, there has been a clear no-vote (4 Yes vs. 8 No), which means that the amendement needs to be rewritten, needs to be put through another poll, etc. I'm afraid we'd lose too much time for nominations and elections if we have to wait for this. If it is needed, I'd personally prefer to start those nominations and elections later, and perhaps have them come into action later.

	17-11-2002 11:25									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

As I said in the other thread - it would be a bad idea to rush this. We're nearly there, but it needs at least one more rewrite, and it's too late in the term to get this done properly in time for the elections. Let's get it going for the January term.

	17-11-2002 17:47									#52
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

hi i am back! had a great blast but now i am back! ok i will start a new poll as quickly as possible! but i am a but bussy too! so bare with me a bit! and for the rest.....did i miss anything good?