07-12-2002 18:34									#31
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By the way, remember that we worked a 1-food tile for three turns in order to get our first warrior finished before our chop, and that will almost certainly put our early population growth a bit farther behind. By 3800, we've lost a turn and a half's worth of food compared with if we had worked tiles with two food, so this is exactly the time when a civ that settled a turn later but worked a 2-food tile would pull ahead.

Nathan

	07-12-2002 18:47									#32
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I got confused with the worker beeing changed
(city worker versus worker worker

	07-12-2002 19:29									#33
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When I think of it, I try to call the guys in the cities "laborers" to distinguish them from worker units. Of course that still leaves the times I don't think of it.

	07-12-2002 19:40									#34
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay By the way, remember that we worked a 1-food tile for three turns in order to get our first warrior finished before our chop, and that will almost certainly put our early population growth a bit farther behind. By 3800, we've lost a turn and a half's worth of food compared with if we had worked tiles with two food, so this is exactly the time when a civ that settled a turn later but worked a 2-food tile would pull ahead. Nathan

Oh, that's probably it. you only see the change in pop when your city fills another row in the foodbox, so this only meant that Lux has proceeded on a +2 food basis. (while we were on +1). So, contrary to what was said before, we can now see that Lux does not have a cow, or wheat nearby

Also, seeing as we are now 7th in production would suggest that all civs are working a minimum of 2 shields atm. Nothing major...

DeepO

	12-12-2002 15:14									#35
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Lux has hit a major point.

Trip has halted the game for some sort of polling.

Likely they have made contact, but not necessarily.

	12-12-2002 15:34									#36
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That would be quick, but not impossible.

What else could it be....?
They could have popped a hut, and discovered a tech or settler,......

I highly doubt it's good to news us, whatever it is.

BTW, shouldn't we have seen at least one hut by now? hmm, perhaps barbs are out.

	12-12-2002 15:40									#37
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A tech would not halt the game. A settler would.

Huts? No, we are not out of the realm of odds yet, by a long way.

	12-12-2002 16:14									#38
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I don't think the Lux Invictans found anyone yet. I spoke with Admiral PJ and though I'd expect him to keep quiet about something like that, I believe he just might have slipped me a hint unintentionally, but he said nothing of the sort....

Probably just found a settler, or locals in a hut gave them maps that shown someone else, and they're wondering whether to make contact or not...

How long did he say they were going to delay the game?

	14-12-2002 03:57									#39
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It seems Lux and Demo found each other...

So If we find one, we know the other one is close..
(arn't I good in stating the obvious )

	14-12-2002 05:06									#40
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quote: Originally posted by alva It seems Lux and Demo found each other... So If we find one, we know the other one is close.. (arn't I good in stating the obvious )

Yes Alva you're great at that!

Lux and Demo found each other? How did you find this out?

I take it this is the first contact ever between nations in this game?

	14-12-2002 05:51									#41
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Lux hold up the game, so did the Demo guys... 1+1=2

(didn't even have to come to that conclusion myself ,
someone mentioned it in the 'save game' thread )

Strange, we have the most units out there, yet we havn't even encountered any barbs, huts,...., but they allready have made contact.

I doubt it's a good thing in the long run though, for Lux and Demo, if they havn't got enough room to expand....

	14-12-2002 06:11									#42
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You're right Alva, their meeting could precipitate an early war, which might result in the elimination of either the Luxians or Demogyptians.... (hey at least it will make the game go a bit more quickly).

Our own particular isolation on the peninsula will probably aid us in our growth, so that by the time we DO make contact, [depending on who it is] we will be in a much better position, especially if they are warlike...

	14-12-2002 07:22									#43
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quote: Originally posted by alva Lux hold up the game, so did the Demo guys... 1+1=2 (didn't even have to come to that conclusion myself , someone mentioned it in the 'save game' thread )

Well... I didn't comment when I saw it, but why would meeting someone be such a big fuzz? From the Euro PBEM experience, I can see one possibility that needed immediate diplo contact, that is if one of the 2 (demo) had an unprotected settler in the wild, which Lux stumbled onto. That was the situation with alexman and me, and we did have some communication going as to try to strike a deal before I enslaved his settler. But, as Alex was in the advantage (he was 1 turn ahead of me), I was not able to strike, while it might be different with the Lux-demo relation.

Other things might apply, but simple contact does not mean you have to stop and poll about something twice, some kind of ultimatum has to be sent to demo, or to Lux in last turn. (meaning they counter proposed something, and demo needed a new poll to see if everyone would agree)

Otherwise, this whole thing is just a scam, and the 2 teams had something to decide which had nothing to do with each other (unlikely, I admit).

DeepO

	14-12-2002 13:00									#44
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The other possibility (and the first one that comes to my mind) is that they might have needed time to consider and negotiate a tech trade, or even a more complex long-term relationship between the two civs.

Nathan

	14-12-2002 13:48									#45
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay The other possibility (and the first one that comes to my mind) is that they might have needed time to consider and negotiate a tech trade, or even a more complex long-term relationship between the two civs. Nathan

That is definetely a possibility. It took us at least 3+ days to decide how we wanted to respond to the Lux Invictans, whatever decision they made they were relatively quick about it....relatively.

In such cases the Great Embassy should be prepared for what to do in case we make contact...., new thread potential there. I'll go make one.

	14-12-2002 16:02									#46
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Well, I still don't see it. There has to be some kind of time pressure on both sides. Let's say we want to trade pottery for CB, while we are researching the wheel and they are researching BW. Why would there be a need to hold the game for polling? It can be done over the course of several turns, and certainly you don't need to stop the game for it.

It could be possible that you are beelining for ironworking, and thus want to trade BW now, and not next turn (as it would mean a wasted turn on research, but why would the other team need to stop their game then?

I agree, the settler idea may not be the perfect example, but it certainly is a possibility. I don't think all trades, and certainly not the long term agreements need to stop the game. There has to be some connection in the game that causes this time-pressure.

DeepO

	14-12-2002 16:12									#47
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The time pressure comes from the possibility that the civ you want to trade with might meet someone else and get what you have to offer from them instead. Also, I suspect that the psychology of PBEM games is such that the desire to "do something" would encourage teams to close a deal sooner rather than later.

Nathan

	14-12-2002 16:38									#48
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Good point, however I wouldn't rush. The big downside to all of this is that everyone now suspects both Lux and demo met... if we were to meet someone, maybe we should decide to do it in between turns, instead of halting the game

DeepO

	14-12-2002 20:34									#49
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Maybe we should hold up our turn long enough so that everyone thinks we're striking deals...




Dominae

	14-12-2002 20:50									#50
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Maybe we should try to convince another team to do so at the same time.... it would be a very good distraction!

DeepO

	14-12-2002 21:09									#51
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Maybe that's what LI and Demo did!


Dominae

	14-12-2002 21:11									#52
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Maybe we should try to convince another team to do so at the same time.... it would be a very good distraction!

I hope you're keeping in mind what suggesting such trickery would do to other teams' perception of us. At the very least, the civ we propose it to would know, which is made more problematical by the fact that we don't have any clearly established allies yet.

Nathan

	14-12-2002 22:26									#53
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I did think on it, but I don't consider it that dishonorable an idea. Somewhere we have to draw the line as to what is allowed as a deception, and what is not honorable anymore. This, I think, should be possible... but there is one tricky part: we need to convince the other team of this, because if they spill it to the general forum, it would all look our fault, and not theirs.

DeepO

	14-12-2002 22:57									#54
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It's not so much that I regard the trick as dishonorable as that it is definitely the sort of thing that would make anyone who hears about it (or figures it out) more wary of us. That could color future relationships in a way that is not favorable. What do we hope to gain that would be worth the risk? Indeed, are we even sure that the false perception would work in our favor rather than against us?

Nathan

	14-12-2002 22:59									#55
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By the way, earlier, we were talking about taking actions for the specific purpose of building trust. Isn't trying to trick the rest of the world a move in exactly the opposite direction from that?

Nathan

	14-12-2002 23:02									#56
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You're right... it is cool, but it doesn't net us anything, and could potentially damage trust. Let's forget about it.

DeepO

	15-12-2002 03:27									#57
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quote: You're right... it is cool, but it doesn't net us anything, and could potentially damage trust. Let's forget about it.

DeepO, it sounds like we are discussing the depolyment of nukes or something...

wish we had them though, we currently have only wooden warheads.

	15-12-2002 21:16									#58
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If we met GoW and found one of their settlers in the open, I'd personally give them this blow. The sooner we can delay their growth the better, and besides, if we strike against GoW early, the rest of the groups might actually like us better.