02-07-2003 21:08									#181
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Using the patched version of Civ2 that fixes the Dye/Copper bug, I was finally able to determine the correct demand formulas for Dye and Copper. Here they are:


Copper

Demand = Rivers + Roads
Techs: Electricity: 3/2 Computers: 1/4
CitySize: 1-2: Demand = 0 3-4: 1/2 5-7: 1x 8-12: 2x 13-17: 3x
18-22: 4x ... etc.
City Improvements: Marketplace: x 3/2 Bank: x 3/2


Dye

Demand = SupplyQuotientOfCloth + Roads
Techs: Chemistry: 1/2 Mass Production: 1/2



The factor they have in common (and which no other commodities use) is a dependency on the number of squares within the city perimeter which have Roads (or Railroad) terrain improvements. This must be the source of the D/C bug.

It's also interesting to note that the demand for Dye is directly dependent on the supply quotient of Cloth for that city. This is only relationship of its kind between commodities discovered so far.



samson

	03-07-2003 01:39									#182
	Got spare money?

The Dye-Cloth relationship makes you want to smack your head "duhhh...". I was expecting it to have something to do with coastal tiles, as most purple dye in the Mediterranean region came from shellfish. Oh well.

So why is copper demand influenced by rivers?

	03-07-2003 19:10									#183
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It is what it is.
Perhaps the thinking was that the demand for copper (a coin metal) increased more in areas where trade blossomed.

	04-07-2003 01:42									#184
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By that reasoning, Silver and Gold should have even more powerful Trade influences.

Now those of us who have adjusted to the bug need to decide whether to patch and relearn our bad habits!

	05-02-2004 23:41									#185
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Andu Indorin over at CFC believes the Manhattan Project increases the demand for Uranium. Samson, did you test for Wonders influencing each of the S/D formulas?

	06-02-2004 15:07									#186
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How about city style influencing supply and demand?

I know that these depend upon the techs possessed, so that when your city style changes to Industrial, oil and coal become more popular, and when it changes to Modern you start to get Uranium demanded.

Just a thought.....

	06-02-2004 20:24									#187
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Duke,

City styles are another thing triggered by tech discoveries, which also account for some supply and demand changes.

Samson did test wonders and found that the demand for Uranium doubles after SDI is built. (I assume he also tested the Mahattan Project and concluded it had no effect.)

Once the demand for Uranium is enabled by Nuclear Fission, this demand is based on the number of techs squared, usually resulting in a huge number. As commodity trades and city cycle updates occur, Uranium is almost sure to appear on every city's demand list. Any help from the SDI wonder is probably just overkill.

	06-02-2004 21:52									#188
	Put an end to popups!

SDI is a city improvement, not a wonder, but I get your drift. Another one of those "feels like it" myths.

	06-02-2004 23:28									#189
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I just want to say thanks for all those that have contributed to this thread. When we play MP, we move a bit quick to get real anal about this, but some of the simple things have actually made of difference. It has influenced some city placements, and pop size related issues. Nothing better than delaying a delivery to your trade city a turn, having a good clue that the commodity will be demanded the next turn when it's currently not. It's an extra edge.

Thanks again.

	07-02-2004 02:16									#190
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Elephant,

I was thinking of SETI, a dumb mistake, although in my defense I'll note that at least 2 letters do match (S and I)!

So it could be that Duke is right after all. Now that I think about it more, I do not recall if Samson tested for wonders or not, but suspect he did since his research was usually quite thorough.

	09-02-2004 07:57									#191
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I think both Duke and Andu are commenting on things that are connected, like particular techs changing city "style", which is more noticable when playing than checking the S/D lists every turn. I vaguely remember something about Wonders, just can't find it in the threads right now. Wish I had that kind of time to do my own tests.