18-01-2003 07:04									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 BTW I do not think you can start with any planets of 140 or better legally. Standard HW is 100. Largest starting default planet is 110, unless already fertile. Fertile has never occurred in any starting HW I have ever seen in over 2000 games at all levels. Even Saks start at 100. A 100 planet can reach 270 with complete terraform and advanced soil. A few planets, such as Orion can reach 300. If you started at 140 (standard) the planet would be able to grow to 330, never seen that.

I should have been a bit clearer here - I meant that the first planet I colonised with my starting colony ship (second planet after my homeworld) was a fertile terran planet. I'm not sure that it was max 140, either, might have been 120 or 130. I've also never seen a starting fertile homeworld.

You are probably right about the way the AI works. But it would be nice if, before the AI sends a fleet to attack a planet, there was some sort of check (based on previous attacks and knowledge of the opponent's technology) as to whether the fleet has any weapons that can damage defending missile bases.

Also, perhaps some sort of check just after the AI declares war that at least one of its current ship designs can damage the opponent's missile bases. If the AI doesn't have such a design, but it has researched weapons that *can* damage the opponent's bases, then scrap an existing design (which design to scrap based on a combination of obsolesence and production value, I suppose) and design another.

Anyway, I also hope Ray K is still going on java MoO. I'd love to play it when it's done.

Grinning man

	18-01-2003 11:28									#32
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Remember this game was written back in the DOS days, so mem and CPU was not much.

	18-01-2003 15:13									#33
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I don't that is correct. First we were talking about a start of the planet (HW). Anyway I have captured many radiated planet from accidents and never had one go over 300. It would be unusual to see the accident so late in the game that you have all of the boosters.

What if that happens on Orion? Would fixing it back to Gaia bring the total pop to over 300? Hmmm

	18-01-2003 22:44									#34
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

No, nothing will get any planet over 300, except maybe an editor. Largest standard starting planet is Orion at 120. Adv Soil adds 60, Complete terra +120 = 300.
Non std starts are for fertile terrans that means they already have some terraforminig applied. The std base is the modifing point.

	20-01-2003 00:47									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

so is there a timetable on when we might get to play this game or what

	20-01-2003 01:03									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by CenturionV so is there a timetable on when we might get to play this game or what

I take it you are referring to Moo3. Rich at GoneGold is saying it is going gold this week. I know we have heard every thing, but Rich has a very good record, so it is better than any other idea I have at this point.

	20-01-2003 01:56									#37
	Put an end to popups!

I thought he was referring to JavaMoo, in which case he would need to talk to RayK. Since it's a one person job, he'd probably say it'll be done when it's done.

	20-01-2003 04:30									#38
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You are probably correct, I forgot what thread I was in again.

	20-01-2003 04:31									#39
	Full PM-box? Change here!

BTW, I hope Ray does stop by and give us an update. It must be a gigantic task.

	20-01-2003 07:56									#40
	Tired of ads?

ya re-creating a game like moo in java would be hard for a group of people not to mention just one.

	24-01-2003 22:03									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Has anyone tried PMing RayK. I wonder if he bailed...

	06-03-2003 06:21									#42
	Inflate your Upload Space

After playing MOO 3, I think the continued need for this project should be obvious.

	06-03-2003 08:50									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

No, I have not bailed. I delayed the project pending the quality of MOO3 and decided to resume it.

However, I'm looking at GalCiv now and starting to get pretty excited. We need a real MOO game, and they seem to be doing things in GC that I would not have the time to reproduce in a Java implementation of Moo.

If GC is a suitable replacement for MOO1/MOO2, I will bail because I'll be too busy playing

	06-03-2003 09:02									#44
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by CenturionV ya re-creating a game like moo in java would be hard for a group of people not to mention just one.

Actually, the mechanics of the game are very straightforward. It's simply of matter of setting up the data structures, writing the UI to manipulate them, and updating them in the next turn logic. I've completed a considerable portion (>50%) of this part of the game.

The AI is more difficult because you have to play the game, find out what works best, and then code that behavior. This will always involve adding meta-structures for managing the AI's "knowledge" that are not always apparent in the initial design. Compounding this is the need to use multiple players & strategies so that the AI isn't easily exploited. Plus a considerable amount of dialogue needs to be pre-written to handle all of the possible diplomatic possibilities (including similar responses that simply require a different demeanor).

Worst of all, for the single designer, is graphics. Most individuals do not have the wide range of talents to do programming & graphics design. This is an area I am going to completely bail on, because "eye candy" is an absolute black hole in development resources.

JavaMoo, if ever completed, will have functional, spartan graphics that only a true 4X enthusiast could love. Think along the lines of Civ1.

	06-03-2003 12:44									#45
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Are you kidding, we are true fanatics here.

	08-03-2003 20:00									#46
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Wow, interesting project ! I feel like you do, Moo2 was very inferior to MOO gameplay-wise.
I did pass on Moo3 waiting for a "conclusion" to come, but I bet the game won't be properly supported and go back to oblivion.
And I'm also looking forward for GC, the guys there made right and clean choices, AND will support the game as best as they could. However it still won't be MOO but another game... So JavaMOO should still have its place IMHO.

But do you really plan to do all by yourself and not get any help ? Maybe then you should put stg in your succession about it, coz'I'm afraid you won't finish ...

Those kind of projects HAVE a chance of seeing the light IF they have a dedicated team (take FreeCiv for example), a lone guy can't get out with all the stuff. Or else you're a genius, possible but unlikely (statistically, I admit I don't know you !)

	25-03-2003 20:45									#47
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Ray K:

Hey, dude, you're duplicating efforts! Haven't you heard about the Free Orion project? It's intended to be an open-source MOO 2.5. DOZENS of people are already on-board. It's in the conceptualization phase now:

http://www.kgasj.net/ap/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/freeorion

I think your talents might be better exercised lending a hand with that rather than reinventing the wheel, eh?

	30-03-2003 13:17									#48
	Got spare money?

But this is not MoO 2.5 it is MoO 1 in Java.

	15-05-2003 19:57									#49
	Put an end to popups!

Yes and may it stay Moo1 Java. I hope your still doing this man. I offer help If you want/need it.

Moo1 Java YAY!

	15-05-2003 20:21									#50
	Got spare money?

I don't think anyone's heard from him in a while. You'd think he would have posted here if he was still working on it.

	15-05-2003 21:39									#51
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

He was posting on another board either Moo3 or Galciv.

	16-05-2003 17:56									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Was that the same guy? I saw RayK posting at MOO3 but the guy that started this thread was Ray K. I asked him a couple of times if he was the same guy but he wouldn't ever respond to me.

	16-05-2003 22:22									#53
	Support Apolyton

I can not say for sure, but IIRC he did mention something about it on the infogrames forum.

	16-05-2003 23:31									#54
	Suffering from ads?

I just got an email from Ray K and they're not the same guy. Here's his email:

For some reason I am no longer able to post on
apolyton. Even when I am logged in, it will not allow me to post.


Anyway, the java Moo project went on hold when moo3 came out and once GalCiv
came out, I figured that it was pointless to continue (great
game!)

Best regards,
Ray


So it looks like it's off for now. He said the point of the java MOO was to create a great 4x space game and with the release of GalCiv he feels the void has been filled. Plus, he's been so busy playing GalCiv he hasn't had time to work on MOO. He can't post to apolyton for some reason but he checks in every once in a while to see how we're doing.

	17-05-2003 01:34									#55
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I am glad he feels that way, but I would still like to see an upgraded Moo.

	19-05-2003 17:31									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Maybe he'd post what he has here and the community could take over.