27-11-2002 05:59									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

age discrimination? ahahah

the goverment discriminates against me. It won't allow me to have sex with 16 year old girls. It discriminates against me for being old.

	27-11-2002 06:01									#32
	Tired of ads?

also to note. An 18 year old drunk driver just killed a 22 year old girl this past weekend in my city.

And don't tell me he wouldn't have been drinking if he had the legal right to. He would have still killed her.

Obviously the law didn't prevent this tragedy. But how many others did it prevent that we don't know about? You never know because they didn't happen.

	27-11-2002 07:02									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The US needs to outlaw alcohol and legalise marijuana.

	27-11-2002 07:03									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Dissident also to note. An 18 year old drunk driver just killed a 22 year old girl this past weekend in my city. And don't tell me he wouldn't have been drinking if he had the legal right to. He would have still killed her. Obviously the law didn't prevent this tragedy. But how many others did it prevent that we don't know about? You never know because they didn't happen.

All your little example shows is that when kids want to drink, they'll drink anyway.

Further, it'll more likely be binge drinking since they can only drink at certain times for short periods.

	27-11-2002 07:06									#35
	Full PM-box? Change here!

but how many kids don't drink because of the law?

Believe it or not there are some kids that don't want to break the law.

	27-11-2002 07:10									#36
	Got spare money?

That number is surely outweighed by the idiots who drink because it's against the law.

	27-11-2002 07:11									#37
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, I'm 18 and I had 3 cups of "Jungle Juice" at a party. Its the first time I ever drink. I probably won't again in quiet a while. 3 cups didn't do much at all. Just as long as you control yourself.

	27-11-2002 07:12									#38
	Increase Your PM Length

who would drink just to break the law? why not go breaking windows and such. Sure that happens, but not too often. There are many ways to be rebellious. You don't drink to be rebellious. Join a gang or something.

Young People drink because its cool and they want to get drunk or buzzed.

And no it's not cool because its illegal. It's cool to smoke as well. And its cool for people over 21 to drink as well.

	27-11-2002 07:14									#39
	Put an end to popups!

Part of the reason drinking is "cool" at a young age is because it's prohibited.

It's the same thing with marijuana. Look at countries that legalized marijuana, usage actually dropped after legalization...

	27-11-2002 07:16									#40
	Inflate your Upload Space

usage dropped? I doubt that. Show me figures

and see my add on on previous post about drinking being cool.

	27-11-2002 07:20									#41
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It's actually not cool to smoke much these days.

Everyone I know sees it as a turnoff.

But when they started smoking, chances are it was illegal and they did it to be a badass, and thereby be cool.

	27-11-2002 07:22									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Heyyy, I'm drunk now, so shut yer pie holes!!!

Honestly, the most irresponsible drinking I did was when I was under 21. After I turned 21, it lost a lot of it's allure in terms of "drinking to be bad." Now I just drink to be social. And I'm a helluva lot more responsible about it. I haven't ever attempted to get behind the wheel of a subway train, nosiree.

	27-11-2002 07:33									#43
	Tired of ads?

maybe I was one of those weenies that don't break the law

I did my heaviest drinking in the navy after I was age 21.

	27-11-2002 08:32									#44
	Suffering from ads?

it's stupid, you can vote when your 18, you can get drafted, why shouldn't we be allowed to drink? heck, my mom let me have a wine cooler once, the "morality police" never knew.

	27-11-2002 08:37									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I mentioned that even at 18 the brains of young adults are still not fully developed and are more susceptible to the effects of alcohol. Including the chance of addiction.

I think I mentioned before pot should be legalized. I won't say to make alcohol illegal- that won't work. But I say we try to promote pot use and discourage alcohol use. Robin Williams had it right in his latest HBO special where he points out drunk people often turn violent, where stoned people never get violent.

So I say the superbowl should be sponsered by California brand maryjane not Budweiser.

	27-11-2002 08:41									#46
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Does anyone really know anybody who wouldn't drink because it's against the law? I sure don't.

If this was targeted against DWI, then the solution is obvious: penalize DWI more severely! It's funny that the same people who argue that gun laws unfairly hold the majority hostage to the actions of a bad minority will defend drinking age laws that do exactly the same thing.

I'd much rather drop the drinking age back to 18, tax the hell out of bar and market sales, and send DWI violaters to jail for 30 days, first offense, no exceptions.

But then again, I think the voting age should be raised to 30.

	27-11-2002 08:42									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I don't agree with more taxes. My Samual Adams costs enough already.

	27-11-2002 08:47									#48
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Dissident

I guess you never saw the U.S. Gov ,made movie "Reefer Madeness".

	27-11-2002 08:52									#49
	Increase the size of your Attachments

no. where can I find it? sounds hilariuos. I love those cheesy gov. movies.

	27-11-2002 09:07									#50
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Odin it's stupid, you can vote when your 18, you can get drafted, why shouldn't we be allowed to drink? heck, my mom let me have a wine cooler once, the "morality police" never knew.

you DO know that you can drink under 21 in your own home and with the permission of oyur parents?

Jon Miller

	27-11-2002 09:20									#51
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The 21 age limit is stupid. It just increases the allure of alcohol and basically prevents any chance at responsible levels of drinking due to the short periods of time alcohol is available.

Drink driving is penalized much more heavily here, and so you don't see the problems with DWI as the US had.

	27-11-2002 09:22									#52
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Btw, my post earlier was a send up of a famous Onion headline about Jenna Bush. Glad y'all enjoyed it!

	27-11-2002 10:11									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: For example, laws forbidding bank robbing discriminate against bank robbers.

Right, but bank robbers are doing something wrong. People who drink are not.

Unless you are equating bank robbery with drinking a beer, I don't see your point.

quote: There's no constitutional right to drink.

There's no specific Constitutional right to coffee, either, but if the government tried to stop people under 21 from drinking coffee surely you'd agree that they can't do that, right?

quote: And there's no constitutional prohibition against age discrimination.

14th Amendment.

quote: They were hurting people. The rate for drunk drivers under 21 was much, much higher than for the rest of the adult population.

That's totally irrelevant.

Drinking was not causing anyone to get into car accidents. People who made the decision to drink and drive were causing car accidents. DWI is already illegal, so punish that crime, but don't illegalize a victimless action (drinking).

	27-11-2002 10:39									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The police power of the several states gives them the authority to pass laws that have a rational relationship to the health and safety of its citizens.

When the drinking age was lowered to 18, the number of DWI fatalities climbed shockingly. When the drinking age was raised back up to 21, the number of DWI fatalities dropped back down. Ergo, there was a rational relationship between the prohibited activity and the law.

No such argument can be made regarding coffee drinking.

Clever you, on your 14th Amendment argument. I was expecting you to come back with the 15th Amendment:

quote: Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

But you used the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection clause. However, that folds back into my earlier "all laws discriminate" statement. IIRC, it's a violation of Equal Protection only if no rational relationship to health and safety can be shown.

	27-11-2002 10:49									#55
	Got spare money?

quote: The police power of the several states gives them the authority to pass laws that have a rational relationship to the health and safety of its citizens.

SCOTUS may say so, and they might even be right, if those laws do not infringe upon the rights of adults to engage in activities that are harmful to no one.

For example, if a statistic were to show that people who had sex and drove afterwards were more likely to fall asleep at the wheel, would you say that the government has the right to ban sex, or would you just say that laws against reckless or unsafe driving should be enforced?

But to get back to the point of drinking, the only harm comes in when people drink and drive. Seeing as how drinking and driving is already illegal, I fail to see why we should make it illegal to drink when we should just be enforcing the current law.

quote: When the drinking age was lowered to 18, the number of DWI fatalities climbed shockingly. When the drinking age was raised back up to 21, the number of DWI fatalities dropped back down. Ergo, there was a rational relationship between the prohibited activity and the law.

All that means is that people under 21 tend to be more irresponsible than those over 21. That doesn't mean alcohol is any "better" or "worse" - and as I said, DWI is already illegal. Just enforce that law.

quote: I was expecting you to come back with the 15th Amendment:

What has that to do with anything? That is talking about voting rights, nothing else.

quote: But you used the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection clause. However, that folds back into my earlier "all laws discriminate" statement. IIRC, it's a violation of Equal Protection only if no rational relationship to health and safety can be shown.

All laws may discriminate, but discriminating against a violent criminal is certainly different than telling an adult that he can't have a beer just because he isn't 21. You can certainly tell him he can't drink and put others in danger, but you can tell anyone of any age that.

	27-11-2002 11:18									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by David Floyd ... if a statistic were to show that people who had sex and drove afterwards were more likely to fall asleep at the wheel, would you say that the government has the right to ban sex, or would you just say that laws against reckless or unsafe driving should be enforced?

If the Supremes were consistent (which they are not), they would have to find such a ban would be constitutional. In Hardwick, they upheld the constitutionality of a law banning homosexual sex on the grounds that homosexual activity spreads AIDS more readily than hetrosexual activity. Your hypothetical presents a similar scenario.

(BTW, just because I say a law would be constitution does not mean I think such a law should be passed, would be passed, or could be passed.)

	27-11-2002 15:00									#57
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: If the Supremes were consistent (which they are not), they would have to find such a ban would be constitutional. In Hardwick, they upheld the constitutionality of a law banning homosexual sex on the grounds that homosexual activity spreads AIDS more readily than hetrosexual activity. Your hypothetical presents a similar scenario.

Yes, but what do YOU think? Do YOU think SCOTUS can have any say over personal sexual behavior between consenting adults? And, by the same token, do YOU think any court or state should be able to tell an adult that they can't drink?

If we justify every opinion on what SCOTUS says, discussions are useless - we just look for precedent. Fortunately, we have brains (unlike our Supreme Court, apparently).

	27-11-2002 15:07									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

How can you justify sending 18-20 year olds to fight for their country but that when they come home they can't have a drink

	27-11-2002 18:34									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by MasterBob The Elder Well, I'm 18 and I had 3 cups of "Jungle Juice" at a party. Its the first time I ever drink. I probably won't again in quiet a while. 3 cups didn't do much at all. Just as long as you control yourself.

Bob, if you are going to drink with any regularity, you need to find something that you like and are familiar with. "Jungle Juice" is about the worst stuff imaginable, because unless you made it yourself there is no way you can know what's in it. Purchase small quantities of various alchoholic beverages until you hit upon something that you like and tolerate well. Then while your cronies are puking on the Sloe Gin, 3 kinds of Rum, Vodka, Peach Brandy and Koolaide mixture, you can calmly make your move on the women who are left standing.

	27-11-2002 18:37									#60
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by TheStinger How can you justify sending 18-20 year olds to fight for their country but that when they come home they can't have a drink

Because they volunteered?