30-11-2002 17:14									#61
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Enterprise is disapointing though. then again, so was Voyager. After DS9 ended, everything went downhill.

	30-11-2002 17:39									#62
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DS9 was the beginning of the end...

	30-11-2002 20:46									#63
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I haven't bothered going to see any of the Star Trek movies in the theater since the craptacular Generations movie. I'll wait to see it on TV or a cheap DVD rental.
No, none of the later Next Generation movies have changed my mind. I'm still hoping they don't try to do Voyager movies...

Wrath of Khan is my top pick, but I can't decide on a second choice. Both The Movie and Search for Spock are tied there, at least the Director's Edition ST:TMP. They had too many studio problems messing up their initial release (main problem with the pacing was they had to switch FX houses at the last minute, and Paramount wouldn't let them push the release date back to have time to edit all the new FX shots down).

And of course Kirk was a cowboy. Star Trek was sold on the concept "Wagontrain to the Stars".

Wraith
"Madness has no purpose, or reason...but it may have a goal."
-- Mr. Spock

	30-11-2002 23:20									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar I would like to point out that ST came out BEFORE D&D, so you guys are "Johnnie-come-latelies" of the geek world. Only Tolkienites precede us.

"You guys"

At least I know what means

	30-11-2002 23:55									#65
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DS9 was a sorry B5 rip off.

Starting with season 4, voyager had a lot of good episodes.

	01-12-2002 00:32									#66
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rip off, maybe, but definetly not a sorry one.

	01-12-2002 00:53									#67
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The battles in DS9 were limp to me. No ships seemed to have shields, and Sisko came across as a bonkers Stalin-type figure.

Voyager gets a kick up the backside for emasculating the Borg. They used to be a very real threat, now they're a bunch of useless green clowns.

	01-12-2002 01:40									#68
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Hey, leave the Sisco alone!!! he's the emissary!

Seriously, I actually liked his character very much, I am not sure what you're talking about. could you give me an example?

	01-12-2002 03:39									#69
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In the episode 'sacrifice of angels', Sisko's battle plan is for an outnumbered Federation fleet to charge straight through a Dominion/Cardassian fleet after waves of suicidal attacks by federation fighters, in order to attack an even larger Dominion fleet emerging from the wormhole.

Only the Defiant makes it through, hardly surprising considering it's small and tough, whereas dozens of bulkier federation ships (and their crews, presumably) are annihilated.

It reminds me of the idiotic orders given by Stalin to his troops, with the intention of 'cutting up' the German advance.

This episode also contains a pathetic ending, as the Dominion fleet is destroyed by the Prophets in the wormhole, thus validating Sisko's insane battle plan, even though he had no intention of seeking their help in the first place.

	01-12-2002 07:55									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger TOS and TNG were created with vastly different moulds. Kirk gleefully ignores the Prime Directive, imposes his view on everybody else, and happily beats up people. OTOH, TNG has a much more mature outlook. .

Dear Lord. The TNG Federation is a wussified Communist state.

	01-12-2002 09:58									#71
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if you think TNG is bad with the wussified commie state, have you seen Voyager? I last count of the number of times they could have gotten home faster in the first season! At least Picard would bend the Prime Directive sometimes, Janeway had a Prime Directive broomstick up her arse the whole time

	01-12-2002 10:24									#72
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Looks like another "Save Earth (out of the 100 million planets in the galaxy) from Yet Another Hostile Alien Entity" plot. Yawn. Do they have to do this EVERY GODDAMN TIME?

	01-12-2002 11:32									#73
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so should the plot be destroy the earth then?

	01-12-2002 11:55									#74
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Hell, if TPTB ever had Earth conquered or, worse, destroyed by some alien menace, people would go through the roof and complain about the "negative future" that Star Trek paints.

As for series rankings:

1. Deep Space Nine
2. Next Generation
3. Voyager
4. Enterprise (so far)
5. The Original Series

Movies:

1. Wrath of Khan
2. First Contact
3. The Voyage Home
4. The Undiscovered Country
5. The Search for Spock
6. Generations
7. Insurrection
8. V'ger
9. The Final Frontier

Gatekeeper

	01-12-2002 13:04									#75
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Actually it would be cool if Earth were taken over. And starfleet has to take refuge on Vulcan or the Klingon home world. And a human/klingon counter attack would then commence in the second half of the movie.

	01-12-2002 13:46									#76
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Well, if the Dominion or the Borg were to ever conquer/assimilate Earth, there'd be no taking it back. The former have sworn to wipe humanity out, should the Dominion ever manage to take Earth and the latter would assimilate Earth and add it to their galaxy-spanning Collective. Unless they're really still ticked off about Capt. Janeway and the Voyager destroying one of their transwarp hubs and infecting a portion of the Collective with a deadly virus ... then they might just eradicate Earth's human population as well. Heh. A species too dangerous to assimilate, and must be destroyed!

Gatekeeper

	01-12-2002 17:58									#77
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The Breen did bomb Earth.

I like the Breen. To bad we never found at what happened to them after the Dominion Wars.

	01-12-2002 19:17									#78
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I'd like to know if they borrowed the Breen helmets from George Lucas. Didn't Leia wear one in Jabba's palace in "Return of the Jedi"?

	02-12-2002 03:03									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Well, if the Dominion or the Borg were to ever conquer/assimilate Earth, there'd be no taking it back. The former have sworn to wipe humanity out, should the Dominion ever manage to take Earth and the latter would assimilate Earth and add it to their galaxy-spanning Collective. Unless they're really still ticked off about Capt. Janeway and the Voyager destroying one of their transwarp hubs and infecting a portion of the Collective with a deadly virus ... then they might just eradicate Earth's human population as well. Heh. A species too dangerous to assimilate, and must be destroyed! Gatekeeper

Didn't they actually manage to collapse all of their transwarp corridors? Haven't they killed the central control of the Borg? Haven't they effectively destroyed the Borg (well, in their present form at least)?

	02-12-2002 06:04									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Didn't they actually manage to collapse all of their transwarp corridors? Haven't they killed the central control of the Borg? Haven't they effectively destroyed the Borg (well, in their present form at least)?

Answered or replied to in order:

1. No. The Borg have (well...'had') I believe 6 Transwarp hubs (the thing we saw in the series finale of Voyager) either spaced throughout the galaxy or just throughout Borg territory in the Delta Quadrant. Although the loss of one was a major blow, by no means does it cripple Borg operations.

2. Yes, Voyager also managed to destroy Unimatrix 1 and kill the current incarnation of the Borg 'Queen', but remember that the borg can clone and reclone drones if needed. They assimilate to gain new technologies, they couldn't do that if they simply kept cloning themselves.

3. Not really. Again, they can reclone the 'Queen' (which they did sometime between ST:First Contact - remember, her flesh was melted off her bones and implants at the end of that movie - and whatever-episode of Voyager) and they can rebuild both Unimatrix 1 and the Transwarp hub they lost to Voyager. What might tie them up for a while is the civil war with the drones that were freed from within the collective, maybe even future contact with the freed drones on that planet that healed Chakotay or Hugh's Collective back in the Alpha Quadrant.



Yes, I'm a Trek geek, but I have never been to a single Star Trek convention.

	02-12-2002 12:42									#81
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and you are forgetting with the way they write those episodes they can pretty much do anything they want. They don't care about plot holes

	02-12-2002 13:07									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident and you are forgetting with the way they write those episodes they can pretty much do anything they want. They don't care about plot holes

You know, I REALLY hate it when people use that copout argument "They're the writers; they can write what they want." That much is a given without saying. The point is to TRY to explain things in a rational, logical, workable way since the writers obviously didn't bother. That's part of the fun, part of the interest in watching the Science Fiction genre.

Talk about a conversation killer...AND IT'S YOUR OWN THREAD DISSIDENT!!! Sheesh!

	02-12-2002 19:17									#83
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The purpose of plot holes is for use to figure out some technobabble reason for it to make sence.

There are enough alternate futures in which earth does get assimilated/conquered/destroyed/turn into jelly/etc.

	02-12-2002 23:08									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus The Breen did bomb Earth. I like the Breen. To bad we never found at what happened to them after the Dominion Wars.

I always found it odd that they wore Cooling suits, but their homeworld (according to Dominion Intel) was "Quite Temperate".

And why did they wear the suits in their ships?

As for the Borg....the borg are powerful, but not the unstoppable force protrayed in pre-Voyager ST. As we saw in First Contact, a borg cube had suffered heavy (though non-fatal) damage when it was doing battle with a dozen or so Federation ships.

This suggests that, "adaptability" aside, there is an upper limit to energy it can take before being damaged.


Which is one more reason why the Galactic Empire would wipe the floor with the ST Universe.

	03-12-2002 02:53									#85
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Oh no, the old "Empire vs. Federation" argument. Run for your lives!

-Arrian

	03-12-2002 04:10									#86
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The Breen homeworld might be "quite temperate" but who says that the Breen didn't evolve on a continent on thier homeworld which is not so warm? Or that "temperate"is only so as seen by the founders. Infact it could even be that they breath something other then the air we breath, and for that to be taken into their bodies needs to be at a low temperature. Such a wierdo atmosphere would not suprise me as the breen are one of the few species top use "organic" ships (besides species 8472) as we learn in voyager.