29-11-2002 09:00									#31
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Does anybody know what the story is with Molly Irvins? Every article I have ever seen from her has a level of vitriol for Bush that I have rarely seen applied to any other politician by anybody anywhere. Since they are both from Texas, I presume it has its origin there, even though Bush is generally seen as doing a decent job as governor. I am not particularly happy with Bush, but Molly Irvins seems completely over the top.

	29-11-2002 09:09									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Paul Hanson Busy trying to work out what exactly he believes in, probably.

Work out? Did you say work out? As in think?

	29-11-2002 09:20									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Don't ask me, ask Ming. I think he said 2 weeks, not for sure. So he'll be back in a week I say.

Then don't respond if you don't have a clue You shouldn't lie like that or put words in my mouth. I didn't ban fez or talk about it.

If you care for the facts instead of made up crap...

MtG banned him for a week... He will be back on Friday...

And Odin... In the the future, don't speak for me... especially when you just make it up and lie.

	29-11-2002 09:31									#34
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Ahh heck Odin. Ming didn't mean mean what he just said. Why don't you go and tell him what he said agian?




(Ming, it's a joke please don't ban me. )

	29-11-2002 09:41									#35
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Yes I did mean it...

Some people just prove how little they know with every post they make

	29-11-2002 10:03									#36
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Jeez... It was a joke....

	29-11-2002 12:14									#37
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Bush is just doing what his corporate masters desire of him. It's what one comes to expect of Republicans in political power. I expect no more- or less- from him.

btw, don't worry about Mingy. He's just cranky from having to moderate 3 sections now.

(nice pic btw, Ming)

	29-11-2002 12:23									#38
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That wasn't Chegitz, it was me...apparently he was the last to use this computer...

	29-11-2002 12:39									#39
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DL! DL!

Corporate masters... . Of course there was NO pork when the Democrats were in power .

	29-11-2002 13:10									#40
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Yeah... the Dems understand pork as well as Repubs... but only the Repubs are bad when they do it

	29-11-2002 13:22									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Yeah... the Dems understand pork as well as Repubs... but only the Repubs are bad when they do it

AFAIK I never said the Dems were saints... that's why I vote Green...

But I must confess that this administration is far more frightening than any previous repub admin.

Imran, *tsk, tsk* trying to get me banned? Lol Go ahead...I'll take a two week holiday...since I likely won't be back for 2 months!

	29-11-2002 14:58									#42
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Sava, Before I jump to conclusions about Lilly, I would like to hear the other side of the story. If you have it, please post it.

As to the offshore tax breaks, the problem with the argument is that it is perfectly legal. It is not cheating at all.

It also illustrates fundamental problems with our corporate tax code. It might be better to simply put corporate income taxes at 0 and replace it with a VAT.

	29-11-2002 15:57									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Odin The Commies and greens are the only people with brains, Ming. Quit supporting corrupt porkbellies. Fezzie is spending some quality time in Mingapulco. It's boring on the threads without his fezzing.

A) You are wrong about the absence of Fez being boring.

B) You seem to filling his shoes quite nicely in his absence

	29-11-2002 16:13									#44
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I agree that this crap is terrible. I wish we could stop it, and we probably can, but more rah-rahing for one party or the other is not going to get the job done. Both parties blatantly pay off their contributers in many ways. Clinton was big on "targeted tax cuts", which were targeted to appeal to desirable sections of the electorate before the election, and targeted to pay off loyal sections of the electorate after the election. This is the same paying off your friends at the cost of everyone else mentality, and it goes on every day in deals which range from highly illegal and immoral to deals that are immoral but would hardly be noticed as such due to the dirty environment around them (like littering in a concentration camp). Vote for third party candidates who have clean hands (possibly due only to a lack of opportunity), and punish those incumbents who let this sort of crap slide.

---------------

I agree with those who think Molly Ivins is a big fat idiot btw. Whenever I see her or Jim Hightower I always wonder whether Texas produces any famous journalists who aren't clowns. I suppose there is Dan Rather or Bill Moyers, but they both tend to drive me crazy in short order, even though they don't have the clown reputation.

	29-11-2002 23:28									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Sava, Before I jump to conclusions about Lilly, I would like to hear the other side of the story. If you have it, please post it. As to the offshore tax breaks, the problem with the argument is that it is perfectly legal. It is not cheating at all. It also illustrates fundamental problems with our corporate tax code. It might be better to simply put corporate income taxes at 0 and replace it with a VAT.

Whats a VAT?

	29-11-2002 23:29									#46
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A Value Added Tax

	29-11-2002 23:33									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Ming A Value Added Tax

I mean whats the definition.

	29-11-2002 23:42									#48
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A tax on the value added to goods or services at each stage in their production and distribution. Originated in France in 1954, and was later extended throughout the Common Market.

In effect... it's a sales tax computed on the difference between what a producer pays for a raw material or semi-finshed product and what he sells it for. It kind of sucks because the consumer is the one that ends up paying it, and it hurts the poor people the most.

Governements love it because it usually brings in more money than a traditional sales does.

	29-11-2002 23:45									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Ming A tax on the value added to goods or services at each stage in their production and distribution. Originated in France in 1954, and was later extended throughout the Common Market. In effect... it's a sales tax computed on the difference between what a producer pays for a raw material or semi-finshed product and what he sells it for. It kind of sucks because the consumer is the one that ends up paying it, and it hurts the poor people the most. Governements love it because it usually brings in more money than a traditional sales does.

Thats the last thing we need, something that sends my family even more in the poor house.

	30-11-2002 02:43									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Yeah... the Dems understand pork as well as Repubs... but only the Repubs are bad when they do it

Ah, but Clinton was bad at it as well - he let her keep the evidence resulting from his pork

	30-11-2002 03:57									#51
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Bush is just doing what his corporate masters desire of him. It's what one comes to expect of Republicans in political power. I expect no more- or less- from him. btw, don't worry about Mingy. He's just cranky from having to moderate 3 sections now. (nice pic btw, Ming)

Yes, Cheg but the demo will do it to. Both of these parties are a disgrace and that is why I do not trust them at all.

	30-11-2002 06:20									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith Does anybody know what the story is with Molly Irvins? Every article I have ever seen from her has a level of vitriol for Bush that I have rarely seen applied to any other politician by anybody anywhere.

So quickly you have forgotten Republican spasms of apoplexy over Clinton?

	30-11-2002 06:24									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Theben That wasn't Chegitz, it was me...apparently he was the last to use this computer...

Kinda weirded me out to see a post by me that I knew I hadn't written.

	30-11-2002 06:33									#54
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It would be fantastic if all the apologists for both parties here would wake up, and stop being so indifferent to the rampant corruption. There are alternatives. You just have to have the patience and desire to seek them out.

	30-11-2002 07:44									#55
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara So quickly you have forgotten Republican spasms of apoplexy over Clinton?

I was referring to journalists, not members of Congress.

And I count Rush Limbaugh and people who appear on Fox as ideologues, not journalists.

Edit: beyond that, there is a question of the level of vitriol relative to the whatever alleged offense.

	01-12-2002 12:16									#56
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Why the HELL should I pay my g*dd*mn taxes if these f*cking corporate j*ck*sses can get away with their shell addresses in Bermuda?

Oh, yeah, that's right: I'm just an Average Joe Taxpayer w/o any money muscle to get my agenda before our so-called leaders (and the IRS would come after my butt if I didn't pay up on time). Damn! Guess I'd better start ponying up some Monopoly money at those fancy-schmancy $10,000 per plate dinners.

This kind of policy is bad, bad PR for the national Republican Party. I'd tell them that myself, but I ain't got the $10,000 to get in the door.

Gatekeeper

	01-12-2002 13:55									#57
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quote: Why the HELL should I pay my g*dd*mn taxes if these f*cking corporate j*ck*sses can get away with their shell addresses in Bermuda?

Because everyone loves the corporations .

	01-12-2002 15:44									#58
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I just won $ 184 dollars in a poker game and I am not going to declare it on my tax return. What do I care about Republican abuses?

	01-12-2002 22:41									#59
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick I just won $ 184 dollars in a poker game and I am not going to declare it on my tax return. What do I care about Republican abuses?

He is right, if it is a private transaction of coins or bills, like a poker game, or geting paid for babysitting, the government won't know anyway. (That is unless Ashcroft puts security cameras in every house. )

	01-12-2002 23:00									#60
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Let's get the picture straight:

Originally, when corporations were smaller, the government regulated the corporations.

Now the corporations regulate the government. Both parties are bought off, as is the media. Republicans are basically willing to tell you this to your face (through a bullhorn and wearing riot gear, of course), while the Democrats prefer to make it sound like they are against it while they basically let the same things go on (but - and pay attention corporate America - there is FAR LESS complaint from the public when the dems are in charge because the idea is that they are "on our side").

After September 11, when it became clear that we had just got rid of our "surplus" and would now need alot more money to create bolder, bigger bureaucracies, this offshore tax shelter thing was brought up as one way to let corporations show their patriotism by paying their "big compared to Bermuda but small compared to every other industrial nation" tax burden.

Tax has a bad name, though. Clinton pardoned the biggest tax evader of recent history just before leaving office and now the republicans have pardoned the corporations (along with restructuring the whole economy in a way that tax burden will fall on the middle class and tax-based programs like education will forever be in danger while there is a need to fund bigger and bigger defense measures... and no one is going to vote to raise taxes...). So the corporations win. They always win. Is there no one on this planet to even challenge them?