30-11-2002 18:56									#31
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Dali
Pollock: reminds me that I currently suffer from Diarrhea.

	30-11-2002 19:56									#32
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80s music, there was invaluable amounts of good new wave and synthpop the likes we will never see again...

	30-11-2002 20:17									#33
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Wait a second. You were serious, weren't you?

	30-11-2002 20:21									#34
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quote: It's very pop to hate USA. Or racists, when there is ANY chance at someone could be called racist (with good excuse or no) people take it, this has been going on years now, and probably won't stop soon either

Actually, It's now even more pop to hate the USA-haters.

	30-11-2002 20:51									#35
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look, new wave and synthpop were great...catchy, fun, and actually well written in many cases. modern music pales in comparison to some of the work by depeche mode and duran duran

	30-11-2002 21:10									#36
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Provost et al: Jackson Pollock's creating of the images was as much the art as the finished objêt (oh bollocks, I've fallen into Civ2 languague again) itself. I still don't like him particularly (elitist *****, contrary to what I like about modern art which his opponents expressed much better, I'm a staunch post-conceptualist when it comes to art), but anyway.

Overcriticised things:

The use of samling in music

Professional Songwriters

Music "these days"

	30-11-2002 21:17									#37
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buck, you are wrong wrong wrong...

sampling has led to the bastardization of classic songs, and to the lack of creativity that most producers have. why should i create something of my own when i can just rip off someone else, make a pretty penny to pay them off and then make an assload of money myself. bad for music as art, bad for music as entertainment

and because of sampling, modern music is nothing short of a regurgitation of old music and therefore can NEVER be better or innovative. I dont use absolutes often but i will in this case.

	30-11-2002 21:20									#38
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Shouldn't that be an objét finit?

	30-11-2002 21:28									#39
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Overcriticised:

Zoos.
Wind turbines.
The NHS.
Special effects.
Games with excellent graphics and sound.

And I'm going to pre-empt whoever says civ3. It's criticism was justified.

	30-11-2002 21:33									#40
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The NHS? Well have you ever tried getting emergency dental treatment nowadays? You'd have more luck getting it sorted with a piece of string and a door...

	30-11-2002 21:35									#41
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 buck, you are wrong wrong wrong...

I'd expect that from someone who litsens to something as flat and soulless as Duran Duran really. Sampling, effectively used, can distill feelings, take emotes from one song and transfer them to much greater effect to another. Most songs can be made much better purely by sampling, by the process of creating startling effects by juxtaposing the familiar with the unfamiliar. It's all very avant-garde I suppose.

Don't get me wrong, I love sample-elss music and I think the recent trend towards original textures in Hip-Hop has been a positive one. But I don't dismiss sampling as a practice like so many do.

	30-11-2002 21:43									#42
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haha, duran duran is not the end all be all of what i listen to. they are though what synthpop is all about, and they do what they do very well.

sampling used effectively is very good, like for jurassic 5 and blackalicious, but i detest of taking entire songs and just rewriting lyrics to them and then adding an 808 kick to it.

but again most sampling i see isnt really creative or innovative, it is basically taking large portions of others peoples music and applying their own half assed spin on it.

i also hate covers of songs too, and i hate it every time some ******* does a cover of a popular 80s song.

	30-11-2002 21:58									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Buck Birdseed I'd expect that from someone who litsens to something as flat and soulless as Duran Duran really. Sampling, effectively used, can distill feelings, take emotes from one song and transfer them to much greater effect to another. Most songs can be made much better purely by sampling, by the process of creating startling effects by juxtaposing the familiar with the unfamiliar. It's all very avant-garde I suppose. Don't get me wrong, I love sample-elss music and I think the recent trend towards original textures in Hip-Hop has been a positive one. But I don't dismiss sampling as a practice like so many do.

It is just plain plagiarism from what I have seen...that I'll Be Missing You song was just a plain rip off of The Police, except with new lyrics. Can't they write their own music or anything?

	30-11-2002 22:13									#44
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There is nothing wrong with covers, sampling or putting new lyrics to old songs. A truly great song doesn't need to be kept intact like some sort of museum peice. Good covers can reinvent songs, reintroduce old work to a public that has forgotten in a modern way. See if you can download "Funky Cold Medina" by Molotov. Its in Spanish so I don't know half of what they're saying but I think its genius. They also did a cover of Bohemian Rhapsody that will make you flip. That doesn't necessarily mean you'll like it.

	30-11-2002 22:48									#45
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No, gsmoove23, look at recent cover versions...they are just bland soulless covers. Look at the likes of Will Young or Gareth Gates. They have nothing apart from their voice...and let's face it...good voices are ten a penny nowadays...

	30-11-2002 22:55									#46
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"reintroduce old work to a public that has forgotten in a modern way"

and then stifles innovation by showing that it is easier to use other peoples work to make money than it is to be innovative and the best at what they do.

	02-12-2002 05:15									#47
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Vegetarian meals.
Instant coffee.

People also make too much fuss over the difference between good/bad wine.

	02-12-2002 07:24									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Seneca And call me old-fashioned, but I kind of like my singers to sing well...

That reminds me of the review in the local paper of the Spice Girls concert.

"Why a band that consists of 5 women singers, none of whom play any instruments, needs so many backup singers I leave an open question."

	02-12-2002 07:33									#49
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 80s music, there was invaluable amounts of good new wave and synthpop the likes we will never see again...

Yep, an era of a million good bands being forced to the sidelines by a few pathetic bands invented by their managers. It's funny. I watch 80's movies these days and I don't recognize the music at all, because I never listened to that crap at the time. I recognize the era and style, but not the song or the "artist".

	02-12-2002 07:41									#50
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Popups. They are exciting, and bring useful products to your attention.

	02-12-2002 08:45									#51
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Agreed. Popups hardly bother me at all.

	02-12-2002 09:12									#52
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-Political Correctness
-The US Legal System (sure its horrible, but it hardly deserves the enourmous volume of criticism it gets comes to equally annoying things)

	02-12-2002 09:33									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko -Political Correctness

I agree completely. It's gotten so bad that people attribute things to Political Correctness that, in fact, have nothing to do with Political Correctness. Civ3 was released only a month after september 11, and yet people attribute the absence of Fundamentalism and the absence of an Arab civ to political correctness. It drives me ****in crazy. They had finished most of the game in August.

	02-12-2002 09:56									#54
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quote: Originally posted by tinyp3nis It's very pop to hate USA. Or racists, when there is ANY chance at someone could be called racist (with good excuse or no) people take it, this has been going on years now, and probably won't stop soon either

Yeah whats with racist haters? They hate them with such a passion they themselves become a racist.

	02-12-2002 09:59									#55
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Everyone is racist, its just a matter of how much.

	02-12-2002 10:09									#56
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To hopefully to seal the discussion on the art topic... (this includes all kinds of art=music, theather etc)

Person who is a great performer but not a great innovator should stop getting overly criticized. People who perform by sampling or doing a cover band should be simply recognized for their performance skills. Its just ridiculous to consider an artist terrible after they have performed an amazing performance simply because the content was not his own. True, the credit for his work would be even greater if it was his own work (and it should be), but simply because he didnt create his own innovation doesnt mean his performance is in anyway of lesser quality.

Also, art is on the eye of a beholder. You may like one type of art and I may like another. To some people, H.R Geiger's artwork is just disturbing, to some amazing.

	02-12-2002 10:11									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin Everyone is racist, its just a matter of how much.

well i was talking about a person who hates a racist so badly that he himself becomes an extreme racist. For example, I have a friend whos a nazi hater. I mean this guy hates nazis so much that he sounds like a neo nazi himself. I just find this kinda ironic/dumb/weird whatever.

	02-12-2002 10:13									#58
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Beef gets criticized too much, as does calamari and fried chicken.

	02-12-2002 10:15									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Calc II well i was talking about a person who hates a racist so badly that he himself becomes an extreme racist.

I don't see how that's possible, unless racists compose an entire race in and of themselves.

	02-12-2002 10:22									#60
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read my example?