18-12-2002 13:46									#31
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I think we will have to, and I think we will succeed. We can (hopefully, if at Knowledge) Pact Zak, put a waiting invasion force in his bases and use probes to knock out PDs and take them by force. If we can't Pact Zak, MC a coastal base (The Leader's Horde) and use that as a base to launch an attack. Remember we can knock out PDs and not have a problem, since we'll have the CDF.

I'm not advocating a move, certainly at the moment, but we are at war, and we will sooner or later have to fight. At the moment however, there seems to be much more support for covert warfare, at least until we are a bit more developed and can build a decent army (HEC, SFF, possibly Needlejets). We need to be ahead of Yang in military technology before we try to strike IMHO.

	18-12-2002 13:55									#32
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Once we have needlejets and missiles or Chaos guns, the writing will be on the wall for Yang. We can pump out legions of troops armed witht hese weapons, and it will be only a amtter of time before we win. Once we take The Hive and with it the CN, our victory will be mroe or less certain.

	18-12-2002 17:57									#33
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We can, whether we will or not is another matter. Although even I think it's just a matter of time before we do, IMO we should wait quite a while before launching an invasion.

	18-12-2002 18:17									#34
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Provisional DEI Orders

Since only 2 turns were played last time (and due to being away, not enough time for me to poll), I see no reason to change DEI orders. Therefore, provisionally, DEI orders are the same as last turchat: DEI Orders Poll, and the Western Probe Foil should continue to move Northwards until it finds another faction, and then infiltrate.

If anyone would like to change this, please speak now and I will.

	18-12-2002 22:46									#35
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quote: Originally posted by AdamTG02 Earwicker: I'm actually advocating directed sabotage, which is a bit riskier for our Probe Teams but would allow us to eliminate the base facilities which allow the Hive to threaten us (mainly, Perimeter Defenses) while leaving other facilites intact.

Good clarification, and good idea! When the invasion begins this will be just what the doctor ordered, assuming we invade with probes in number.

	18-12-2002 22:58									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Earwicker Assuming we invade with probes in number.

That's what I like to hear

Hear that TKG/DBTS? More probes!!

	19-12-2002 00:11									#37
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a Drogue as you said probe teams tottally your responsiblity so dont come knocking on mine door...

	19-12-2002 00:50									#38
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Ok, I wasn't sure who I had to ask for them. TKG then?

	19-12-2002 05:05									#39
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quote: I'm actually advocating directed sabotage, which is a bit riskier for our Probe Teams but would allow us to eliminate the base facilities which allow the Hive to threaten us (mainly, Perimeter Defenses) while leaving other facilites intact.

Only problem is, Perim. defences are EXTREMELY difficult to directly target.

	19-12-2002 13:46									#40
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That is true, I need to boost their moral mucho before we try this. IIRC it's 75 or 80% chance at elite.

	20-12-2002 02:51									#41
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Okay. Looks like my plan won't work, then; thanks for the information.

	20-12-2002 15:07									#42
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Provisional DEI Orders 2211-

1) The Western Probe Foil should continue to move Northwards until it finds another faction, and then infiltrate.
2) The Western Gatling Foil should continue West following the coast of the other continent.
3) The Scout Patrol should Continue exploring the unexplored area to the West and South.
4) The Eastern Probe Foil should steal tech from Yang at The Leader's Horde, and if still alive afterwards, should immediatly make its way back to steal another tech (conditional on poll).
5) The Eastern Gatling Foil should return to TBIBTU immediatly and rest until fully repaired, and should then continue exploring North along the coast (conditional on poll).
6) The New Transport Foil being built by Voltaire in New Suez should stay put until Probe reaches it, and then head off to the University (this is probably for a future turnchat and is dependant on poll)
7) The New Probe Team being built by GT in TBIBTU should move to New Suez ASAP and board the transport.

Comments and Critiques welcome

DEI issues (first post) has been updated for new units.

	20-12-2002 15:13									#43
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Dammit, I can't BELIEVE the number of times I've had to amend the orders today because I've made mistakes. I didn't realize Voltaire was building a transport foil at NS.

Anyway, looks good to me.

	20-12-2002 22:38									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue 6) The New Transport Foil being built by Voltaire in New Suez should stay put until Probe reaches it, and then head off to the University (this is probably for a future turnchat and is dependant on poll)

One point of clarification, under what jurisdiction does the foil fall under for the time being? It is under regional jurisdiction for the time being until the probe reaches it? Or does the DEI or DPO control it from the moment of completion? Not really all that important, I was just wondering.

	20-12-2002 22:42									#45
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I asked the DIA for it, and he granted it, so I presume it is mine, however I think it might be DBTS's? Is that possible, the DPO gets control of a unit he didn't ask for, but was intended for the DEI?

	20-12-2002 22:45									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue I asked the DIA for it, and he granted it, so I presume it is mine, however I think it might be DBTS's? Is that possible, the DPO gets control of a unit he didn't ask for, but was intended for the DEI?

Well since I believe it was constructed at your request, it falls under the jurisdiction of the DEI. This also raises another question, if a governor constructs a military unit, or a probe, etc. and it is not requested by either the DEI or the DPO, under which jurisdiction does it fall?

	20-12-2002 22:52									#47
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DPO. DPO gets everything unless it's a probe (automatically DEI) or unless he gives it to the DEI.

	20-12-2002 22:53									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue DPO. DPO gets everything unless it's a probe (automatically DEI) or unless he gives it to the DEI.

Ah I see. Does this even apply to police/garrison units?

	20-12-2002 22:59									#49
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I believe so yes.

	21-12-2002 05:49									#50
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Yes.

	21-12-2002 06:25									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Hear that TKG/DBTS? More probes!!

so, shall we be wreaking general havoc in the hive with probes now, or later? i know you wanted that transport for the university, but we'll need more than one transport full of probes for yang. so if we could get NA UNPD TacAc antioch and concordia to make 1 or 2 probes (TBIBTU and suez providing the foils) yang will be finished

	21-12-2002 06:34									#52
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We still need infrastructure, don't forget. My citizens are getting impatient with all the delays in building Energy Banks and Research Hospitals.

	21-12-2002 19:46									#53
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I have to admit, we need infrastrucure now, and most of Jedinica seems to be preoccupied with building CPs. I think wait a while before getting an army of probes. ATM I'm more concerned with getting infiltrators in all factions and getting techs off the Hive. When we want to launch an invasion (or just before) I'd go for a push for transports and probes, to take down PDs and MC bases that get in our way.

Is it true that the DEI gets control units he's asked for, and not the DPO? The Consitution seems to suggest, that bar probes, DPO gets everything and then gives exploration units to the DEI, but common sense would say if the DEI asks for it, and the DIA agrees, the DPO doesn't need to be involved?

	21-12-2002 19:49									#54
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i agree with drogue on the last part of his post

	21-12-2002 21:06									#55
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i know ATM we need infastructure, but building 1 probe can't be that much trouble, can it? but, whatever. blah, i alwasy neglect energy banks and rely on getting the PEG, but since this is vanilla smac, we just can't do that

	16-01-2003 20:17									#56
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DEI Provisional Orders 2222-

Eastern Probe Foil, near The Hive: Infiltrate The Hive at The Labourer’s Throng and steal a tech (synth. fossil fuels I think )

Eastern Probe Foil, near The University: Infiltrate the datalinks of The University at Mendelev College.

Eastern Laser Foil: Explore North East, towards the Isle of Deneria, and possible, Miriam and The Believers.

Western Probe Foil: Infiltrate Santiago at Blast Rifle Crag, and steal tech (their world map IIRC).

Western Laser Foil: Explore South, along the coast, and around the cape at the bottom.

Scout Patrol[s]: Are they both mine? First Scout Patrol to explore South of Twin Peaks, the unexplored area. Second Scout Patrol to fortify new base about to be built, near it.

All conditional on poll, will take the highest at the time of turnchat, however I think these are by far the best options.