05-12-2002 10:30									#31
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because para and marines have to wait 1 turn after they have landed to attack, if the defender has railroad, he can easily reposition his troops and wipe out the poor para and marine before they have time to do anything.

	05-12-2002 10:43									#32
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What do you do when the marines directly assault your best port city and take it, thereby wiping out most of the improvements?

	05-12-2002 10:44									#33
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They are terrors I tell you, terrors.

	05-12-2002 13:42									#34
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question, if You modded the paras to two movement points, are they then able to paradrop and attack, can't you just drop them over an enemy city and have them attack from the air?

	05-12-2002 20:42									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Dida because para and marines have to wait 1 turn after they have landed to attack, if the defender has railroad, he can easily reposition his troops and wipe out the poor para and marine before they have time to do anything.

Do you know of any preference changes that would allow them to land and attack in the same turn?

== PF

	05-12-2002 21:51									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Usually Insane question, if You modded the paras to two movement points, are they then able to paradrop and attack, can't you just drop them over an enemy city and have them attack from the air?

No... I mod mine to give them two movement, and they still have to wait a turn after dropping into enemy territory before they can attack.

They'd be pretty lethal if they could attack on the same turn, had two movement, and a range of something like 12 tiles.

Imagine having similar range on your helicopters, and a larger capacity. You could follow your paratrooper strike with a few workers to build airfields and fortresses, and suddenly have a very, very potent base of operations within enemy territory.

	05-12-2002 23:56									#37
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There is perhaps one effective tactic that would use paratroops. If you have a larger hostile city that would take to long to reach from a ground assault from your own territory. 1st step make about 4 to 6 vetran paratroops. Make sure you have airfileds in the citys you have already. Make 2 or 3 choppers make a settler n 1 or 2 workers for the choppers. Load em up n get em near you border.

step 2. Make sure you have normal infantry reinfrocements ready. If the other guy has tanks u will need to reinforce fast after landing. Also have a few tanks ready.

Ok now pick a good site like a HILL drop your paratroops in then the settler n workers. Rush project WALLs or AIRPORT which ever is best at the time. Now the other guy will be in shock which leaves you free to put the hurt on.

	06-12-2002 02:07									#38
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There is no way that I know of that can make para and marines attack on the same turn they landed. Firax has to do this part. I think they really should do it, to make them remotely useful. What's the capacity of Helicopter? (I used them like 2 twice to date), if we make them carrying 4 units, we can derive a whole new strategy of offense from para, marine, and chopter attack.

	06-12-2002 02:08									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Dida I made Marine 8/8/3, capable of airdrop and amphibious assault. Paratrooper now comes with Robotics, (renamed to Storm Trooper), they are 15/12/2, and treat all terrain as road + all abilities of Marine. This is an upgrade for Marine. Gerrila I made treating all terrian 6/6/2 and treating all terain as road and 'hidden nationality'.

Golly, I like those changes although I would probably decrease the defence of the storm trooper. A 12 defence has a decent chance of withstanding a mech infantry or tank assault. In reality those types of special ops forces would most likely be obliterated when faced with armor.

I like the Guerrilla also, having hidden nationality and more mobility makes it more like an actual guerrilla.

	06-12-2002 02:16									#40
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Reading over this thread make me think we have a legitimate and resolvable issue with FIRAXIS. We should all tell them to make paras operate from the sea somehow.

They can either launch off carriers or other naval ships, since all we're talking about is a little helocopter. I personally like the idea of having paras operate from submarines. BEFORE YOU LAUGH, the Japanese had aircraft (fighters) that could be launched from their subs in WW2, although I don't think they ever used them. Barring paras, subs should be able to carry 1 marine, like frogmen. I guess I can probably do that with the editor.

	06-12-2002 02:36									#41
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The idea behind my tactic of using paratroops is a sound one though u need the settler. Once you deploy the city inside your oppents borders thats a 25% boost for defensive, if its on a hill +25 more, if you rush walls +50, then once you fortify your paras in the city thats +25 more. So lets add all this up 125% plus the defensive val of 8 that paras have hmm 18 I think almost as good as 2 normal infantry,but dont forget you had 4-6 of em in the city so that is like 10 normal infantry, no way theyd take u out unless they where able to get a lot of tanks in that area on that first turn.

Also even though I have never done this before Im sure you could do this from a carrier but the logistics would be somewhat more complex. If nothing else it would require more choppers. If I did that though Id just use normal infantry n a settler. I would pick a hill to land on plant my city n rush walls n then rush n airport. I feel that using this on someone that doesnt exspect it would devastate them causing lots of panic.

	06-12-2002 02:44									#42
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I'm definately gonna have to see about modding my helicopters some more for my next game... can they be transported by aircraft carriers? If so, you could load the choppers up... put them on a carrier... and have a formidable naval strike force.

	06-12-2002 02:52									#43
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Thats why I said it would require more choppers.
1st make 4 choppers
2nd make a settler
3rd make the vetran infantry
4th load them onto the choppers.
5th rebase the choppers at the carrier.
6th land your infantry behind the lines.
7th then put the settler in with them n deploy city
8th rush airbase or wall. NOTE rush walls first if your citys not on a hill because if they hit with tanks youll need the boost.


Extra note: you can also make n airbase using a worker if you want but requires another hex to have to defend. So I wouldnt do this unless I was stripped for cash.

	06-12-2002 02:57									#44
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Looks like someone has modded Settlers & Workers to be Airlift/Helicopter capable. Normally you have to use land or sea transport.

	06-12-2002 03:00									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe Looks like someone has modded Settlers & Workers to be Airlift/Helicopter capable. Normally you have to use land or sea transport.

Not an unreasonable mod. The Army Corps of Engineers certainly travels by airplane when the occasion calls for it.

	06-12-2002 03:03									#46
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Until Firaxis changes the code, I don't know of any way to get helios based off carriers. If they are going to go that, they might as well fix there preference of not allowing paratroopers to be based off carriers.

-- PF

	06-12-2002 07:00									#47
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Perhaps if they were significantly cheaper, we'd use'em more (I myself built 1 each of para and helo in my first week with the game and haven't built them since...). I don't know what they cost since I never build them, but there must be a reasonable cost

If they're cheap enough we'll find a use for them. Don't believe me, read a book on WWI, the "Strategy" section...

--mm

	06-12-2002 07:39									#48
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I usually viw paratroopers and marine as elite forms of infantry (paras with normal offence and increased defence, and mariens visa versa) which the sort of are in real life. So I mod them for that purpose, increasing their cost to reflect their relative power in the game. I have found that the AI will build masses of paratroopers and marines if this is the case, shunning the cheaper generic infantry.

I personally find paratroopers very useful as shock troopers to toss behind the lines in the beginning of an offensive. If anything they distract the enemy from reinforcing their frontier cities against my main force (human players will see through this tactic I guess), and even human players will have to leave some untis in the rear to deal with them.

	06-12-2002 21:15									#49
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quote: Not an unreasonable mod. The Army Corps of Engineers certainly travels by airplane when the occasion calls for it.

Yes, but they don't build cities, do they?

	06-12-2002 23:43									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Yes, but they don't build cities, do they?

Well, not in a manner of speaking... but they have been known to build significant infrastructure improvements to support cities (bridges, dams, roads, etc.); and they would be used to build a base of operations in enemy territory, which a new city in that situation would really be serving as.

It should be noted that many cities throughout history started as military installments that grew out of civilian installments nearby that supported the local militia and enjoyed the protection as a result.

	07-12-2002 06:30									#51
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I just make a speical worker unit, named Engineer, which can be airdropped, and cost more.

	07-12-2002 13:22									#52
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Woo, I'm'a just go and make 'em cheaper! Problem solved, woohoo!

Well, and I do like the marines having decent defense idea there.

Oh, by the way, hello again! I used to be here, then I wasn't, and now I am again. Therefore I win. Yay. See ya around.

	07-12-2002 23:08									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Dida I just make a speical worker unit, named Engineer, which can be airdropped, and cost more.

wat about a fighting engineer?

	08-12-2002 00:46									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Calc II wat about a fighting engineer?

The AI wouldn't have a clue how to implement it properly. It would give the human a huge advantage.