04-12-2002 22:11									#61
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Should evil be in the intent or the results?

	04-12-2002 22:15									#62
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For the purposes of historical rankings, I think you have to weigh both.

Hitler was less evil than Stalin, IMO. He certainly wasn't intending to be "evil," as he thought he was doing stuff that was really good for the world and for Germany.

	04-12-2002 22:23									#63
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The only reason at all one wouldn't "blame" Hitler is only because he was mentally deficient .

	04-12-2002 22:27									#64
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I disagree with both of you. Hitler intended to do what he did, and he was not mentally deficient. He intended to, and took joy from, harming the "racially impure." Stalin was also certainly a sadist, but unless you believe that the USSR lost 1/3rd its population under Stalin, Hitler is still responsible for more death.

	05-12-2002 00:46									#65
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I feel a "Historical Filth" coming on.

	05-12-2002 01:04									#66
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I have a new moral code for myself brewing so I don't know who's evil between those above. Most of them are very evil however.

	05-12-2002 02:38									#67
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Should evil be in the intent or the results?

How about 20% for intent and 80% for results?

There are way more evil people out there than on this list, but they probably didn't or don't have the chance to carry out their evils. So I think results should far more outweigh the intent.

	05-12-2002 02:42									#68
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I give Stalin my vote. This guy is not only dangerous to people in his country, but also to his immediate family members and loyal subordinates, whereas generals can literally get into a shouting match with Hitler and get away with it. If someone is dangerous even to his friends, you can imagine how evil that person is.

	05-12-2002 02:47									#69
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quote: I would vote America for the sole reason -Country & Western Music.

I like Country and Western.

quote: 3) I said it before Geroge W. Bush is not evil, just very stupid. He can not even read.

I think that comment shows more your stupidity than his.

	05-12-2002 02:52									#70
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Don't forget Gustav Vasa... founding father of Sweden... he was one greedy evil bastard.

	05-12-2002 03:25									#71
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Tough question. Modern technology merely enabled evildoers to slaughter more, but given the same technology in past times I have no doubt many would have done the same thing - slaughter undesirables. Oliver Cromwell and the pope who ordered the massacre of the Cathars deserve to be on the list along with Montezuma. However, many mass murderers committed their crimes for reasons other than simple enjoyment, it's the people who actually enjoyed their crimes that qualify as the most evil. Like Saddam getting his kicks watching torture videos, etc...

	05-12-2002 03:44									#72
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Should evil be in the intent or the results?

What if the intent is based on cultural norms, delusional ideation or popular misconception? Hitler believed that Jews were truly bent on subjugating hundreds of millions of people. His beliefs were the result of a horrible fraud committed by the frenchman who wrote "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", combined with centuries old predjudice against the Jews.

Some of Genghis Khan's greatest crimes were the result of his tribe's cultural norms. An example is the massacre of the population of Babylon. He sent two ambassadors to Babylon, but the ruler of Babylon made the unfortunate decision to send back to him their disembodied heads. Mongol culture dictated that such an insut demanded extreme measures, so a punitive war ensued. The ruler escaped, an act which necessitated a ruthless pursuit across the middle east, with any person failing to render proper assistance with his capture being subject to a death penalty.

Ironically there seems to have been a dearth of people committing great acts of mass evil in the name of evil. Can anyone think of one single instance?

	05-12-2002 04:53									#73
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The guy who odered the death of Jeuse!

	05-12-2002 05:22									#74
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quote: Originally posted by 123john321 The guy who odered the death of Jeuse!

He tried to have him spared if you'll remember. The rabble wouldn't hear of it.

	05-12-2002 05:25									#75
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc He tried to have him spared if you'll remember. The rabble wouldn't hear of it.

ok, that guy

	05-12-2002 05:32									#76
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc He tried to have him spared if you'll remember. The rabble wouldn't hear of it.

Could there possibly be anything more evil than the rabble?

How about it Ming? Can we have a listing for "The Rabble" to vote on? After all, evil must have its legions in order to be truely great!

	05-12-2002 05:37									#77
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Even if we have the intent/numbers problem, there is the question of how the numbers were achieved. I don't think that individul that died form Famine as a result of failed policies should count equally to individual killed in the name of policy. As such, for example, Mao should go way down in the 'evil' meter, as most deaths under his rule were the cause of faulty policy, but there was never any intent for them to die. How much this would cut Stalin's numbers is unclear, as there are many claim that he wanted famine among Ukranians specially.

I also don'ty buy the notion that someone like Hitler didn't know what he was doing was immoral cause he believed in his cause so much. After all, if you trully believe, you don't go as far as the Nazi's did to hide what they were doing. If Hitler was so sure of his little extermination policy, i find it hard to believe he would have not been fine with signing a piece of paper expressly ordering it. He never did, which makes me wonder why...

	05-12-2002 05:41									#78
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The guy in TV who gives the weather forecast is quite evil. He's always telling me to kill people for no reason

	05-12-2002 05:46									#79
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I disagree with both of you. Hitler intended to do what he did, and he was not mentally deficient. He intended to, and took joy from, harming the "racially impure." Stalin was also certainly a sadist, but unless you believe that the USSR lost 1/3rd its population under Stalin, Hitler is still responsible for more death.

That means nothing, Che. Sure he intended, that says nothing about the state of his mind, other than maybe illustrating to perfection the mental deficiency.
















I need to say Red Jon at this point, so as to clutter his search for himself.Would all please join me in this endeavor

	05-12-2002 05:52									#80
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Why is everyone so eager to say hitler was nuts, so hes not responsible?

Hey, perhaps Stalin was nuts as well: after all, extreme Paranoia might be cause by some form of psychosis the man had no control over...

If you think Stalinw as worst than Hitler, fine, but to say Hitler might not be evil at all cause he was nutty... specially when you have absolutely no evidence of that, seems dubious.

	05-12-2002 05:57									#81
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About all one can say for Hitler is, at least he didn't eat people like Idi Amin, who BTW got my vote.

	05-12-2002 07:14									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Mao was responsible for the deaths of millions. Hardly nice.

But he didn't intentionally want to kill them. Just like somebody who unleashed a plague accidentally.

	05-12-2002 07:36									#83
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I second the Jesus nomination.

Though he was probably just a two-bit crook, his cult single-handedly wiped out a thousand years of progress of Western civilization and is still refusing to die in North America.

	05-12-2002 08:00									#84
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Put me down for "Jesus". Although, there's still time for "Allah" to catch up, in terms of evil done in his name.

	05-12-2002 08:34									#85
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Well in that spirit, Let me mention 'Marx' for the murder done in his name.

	05-12-2002 08:40									#86
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WHAT?

I didn't read through the entire thread, but what qualifies Napoleon as being evil!?

	05-12-2002 11:07									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Could there possibly be anything more evil than the rabble? How about it Ming? Can we have a listing for "The Rabble" to vote on? After all, evil must have its legions in order to be truely great!

My vote is for the rabble as well!

	05-12-2002 12:59									#88
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Looks like Russophobia has broken out in the states!
And to commemorate this recent outbreak, I've decided to change my avatar

I voted Hitler. Voting for Stalin is absolutely absurd....How is Stalin more evil than Hitler or Bin Laden or Hussein?

	05-12-2002 13:04									#89
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Um because he killed a WHOLE lot of people. His massacre of the Russian General Staff almost led to Hitler winning in Russia. He killed his friends, his enemies, people he didn't know. He was a sick, sadistic bastard and the most evil man of all time, bar none.

	05-12-2002 13:07									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Um because he killed a WHOLE lot of people.

Many people kill people. Hitler caused the deaths of many as well....

quote: His massacre of the Russian General Staff almost led to Hitler winning in Russia.

Massacring the Russian Genereal Staff is evil. But again, thats killing people.

quote: He killed his friends, his enemies, people he didn't know. He was a sick, sadistic bastard and the most evil man of all time, bar none.

Most dictators do these things. I'm pretty sure Mao also killed his friends, enemies, and people he didnt know...

Basically, hes evil because he killed people? Hmm....I'm sorry, thats not a very good reason.