11-12-2002 03:05									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos If no-one runs for Domestic Minister, I'm also able to FILL IN for at least the first chat of that job as well, though I'd REALLY REALLY HOPE to appoint a TEAM of people to split up that job (CP-equivalent, MoPW-equivalent, and perhaps a regional breakdown). I'm waiting on responses to a few more PMs, but especially with Unortho no longer able to fill this void, I feel obligated to fill it unless something ground shattering takes place in the next 1-2 hours or so.

It was a terrible, terrible idea to combine the offices of Public Works and City Planner.

	11-12-2002 03:13									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Togas [rant] People's lack of interest has nothing to do with the NewCon. It's that so few are actively being involved. Fact of the matter is, people, is that the NewCon was supposed to get EVERYONE involved in running this civ, not just a couple of guys. The Senate has real power which means individuals have real power. All of us, not just 4 elected people, should be running this civ together. [/rant] --Togas

Well I had a very nice long essay I wrote on this for this thread a few days ago, but Poly strangely died at that exact moment I tried to post it, hmmm..... Anyway, I will do my best to repeat what I was going to say here.

You can certainly blame a drop-off in numbers here on apathy, the release of PtW and the subsequent PtW Demo game, but I believe the NewCon is a big thing as well. I am not currently participating due to being away from my computer and country, thus I can only post every now and again, and I cannot access the save. I go home in February, and when I secure Net access again there I want to be as involved as before, perhaps as Domestic Minister or somesuch this time. But I see the NewCon as a barrier to me.

I have always been against overcomplication, and I was content with the detail we had in our Constitution before the NewCon - now I am not. I am so very glad that my last term ended the day before the NewCon came into effect, as it would have been a nightmare negotiating the legal obstacles I see here. Even as a minor example, I couldn't believe my eyes with Arnelos' thread asking for someone to propose a Bill he had in mind! That's just psycho! Look at the C2DG, where this craze started. Although many formerly active players have gone due to newer games arising (many came here for example), the place has no formal rules beyond a few agreed guidelines I assembled some months ago, and there are far fewer problems there.

All of this overcomplexity, this bureaucratic red tape that acts to slow down action and prolong urgent decisions is unnecessary. I am certainly adding my name to those disenchanted with the NewCon. Looking back, I wish I had voted on the thing. I had my doubts (especially about something so long), but I stayed my vote. Apart from the fact it wouldn't have influenced the final outcome anyway, I thought those who studied it in more detail had concluded that it would be fine. I wish I had spoken up now.

I wish we could get on with it, deal with any problems as they come along (that's why I loved the Court: no need to bind ourselves to the letter of a law if we have some flexible, impartial humans to resolve any issues) and not have to fight a document made to serve us just to get on with things.

When I was heavily involved in the game as Prez, although it was hard work at times, it was always more fun than work. It looks that, if I ran and successfully won a position here again, the fun would be drowned out by the annoyances. And isn't the fun what we're all here for?

	11-12-2002 03:26									#63
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Although I have begun to grow more accustomed to the dealings of the NewCon and the Senate, I am still among some of the disenchanted.

MrWhereItsAt expresses my feelings precisely.

(I DO especially think Arnelos' having to ask someone to post a poll for him is quite ridiculous, and an amendment should be proposed...)

	11-12-2002 04:16									#64
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Alrighty, time's up and I got all the PM's I was waiting on.

I hereby switch my candidacy from running for Foreign Affairs Minister to running for President

I have already started the lookout for a VP pick as well as Science and Economics advisors (respectively). I've also started thinking on who I would appoint to be a Domestic Minister (should no-one run for that post) and have PMed to ask some people (including some old posters who haven't been active a little while but said they'd be back "in December") if they'd be interested in at least being part of the "DM Team" should I have to appoint the DM.

As for availability, here's what's important:

I should be available for the entire term for turnchats, as I am not planning to leave town again during this entire upcoming term.

As for economics and science, the areas where the President has the most impact, it is my intention to do something like what Reddawg did when he was MoE for the economics area of hte Presidency's powers and to appoint an advisor for science matters to coordinate senate discussion on science and provide me with any advice he feels necessary on the topic (since I admit that playing on emperor level is not something I have a very large amount of experience with).

That about covers it for now. More to come later, of course.

NOTE: The D.C. metro area is forecasted to get hit by a storm of freezing rain late this evening, so it's possible I may lose power like adaMada tomorrow. If I don't post all day tomorrow and people start wondering what happened to me, that's probably why. Otherwise, I'll be around to start the presidential campaign stuff I hope.

	11-12-2002 04:40									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic (I DO especially think Arnelos' having to ask someone to post a poll for him is quite ridiculous, and an amendment should be proposed...)

My point is that this is the preferred method at the moment: throw MORE on top of what is already there. An amendment may stop such a specific problem in the future, but wouldn't it be better to REMOVE things rather than build on the problem? Otherwise we're just adding even more to filter through before being able to do anything for fear of impeachment/court cases. Unless the amendment was just 'remove this from the Constitution", of course.

	11-12-2002 05:50									#66
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I can't be president. I had a rugby meeting today and practices are 6-8 pm Tues-Thursday. Since I won't be getting home until around 9, I wouldn't have enough time to do weekday turnchats during the second half of the term.

	11-12-2002 10:52									#67
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My disenchantment is with the steady decline in active membership and the fingerpointing.

I agree. The whole bit in the NewCon about Ministers not being Senators therefore being unable to make official polls (bills) was designed with an active population in mind ... a population that wanted some sort of check & balance against its Ministers taking too much control over things. That part could easily be taken out so that the Ministers could further run the game without anyone else being involved.

People once wanted a document that fixed everything, solved all our problems, answered all our questions, and gave us a lawful means to resolve any issue. Now, with the current lack of interest in this game, people just want to log on occasionally and see how things are going.

With that sort of participation, Mr.WIA is right. There's no need for a code of laws or anything of the like. But this bullsh*t about "red tape" is annoying me. Other than Arnelos needing people to propose laws for him because no one is helping him, the only "red tape" you have to do is post a freakin' poll. How hard is that? We used to post polls in the Old Con days like we were all doing our best Trip impersonation.

Put the blame squarely where it belongs (PTW sucking up our interest) and quit making a scapegoat out of a new set of laws that you're too lazy to read and understand.

--Togas

	11-12-2002 18:39									#68
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I kindly ask that this debate be taken to a different thread so I don't have to read hundreds of posts for one or two actual nominations, please. My time is limited enough as it is, I don't need to read through all this to update the purpose of the thread.

	11-12-2002 18:47									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Togas ...quit making a scapegoat out of a new set of laws that you're too lazy to read and understand. --Togas

Well I end my threadjack with this post, but I first want to say that Togas - you're dead right there. I tried three times and got confused three times. I have never read the whole NewCon totally. My comments are based solely on what I have seen happening in this forum and on my surprising lack of patience in reading it.

	11-12-2002 19:16									#70
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Please listen to Unorthodox.

	12-12-2002 00:26									#71
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx With the elections starting in 6 days, figured it was about time to get one of these up. Ill update this with the candidates. Candidates President: Arnelos Supreme Military Commander: Civfan01 Meshelic Foreign Affairs Minister: Maniac Star Seed Domestic Minister:

Unorthodox, E_T announced his candidacy for SMC

	12-12-2002 02:16									#72
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Thanks, updated

	12-12-2002 03:59									#73
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We need a DM, bleep it!

I hereby promise I will seek a RA position with the Term 7 DM.

	12-12-2002 04:05									#74
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I would also be interested in an RA position, just in case prospective DMs are holding off due to an apparent lack of helping hands.

	12-12-2002 04:08									#75
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Should my bid for SMC fail, I am VERY interested in either Deputy Domistic Minister of Public Works AND/OR Regional Administration.

Believe it or not, the DM WILL have deputies this time around....

	12-12-2002 04:10									#76
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I'm willing to be a deputy.

	12-12-2002 04:13									#77
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I would be interested in DM ONLY and I Repeat ONLY if there is a Vice Min and I have at least 4 RAs.

Note that the RAs will be over the cities and will be fully responsible for their CP and Worker duties in those cities.

The plan is to assign the workers to Regional areas and have an Administrator over that area's cities and workers.

	12-12-2002 04:16									#78
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Well it looks like you've got potentially 2 deputies and maybe 3+ regional administrators...

just do it Ghengis. Sign up man

	12-12-2002 04:19									#79
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I would be interested in DM ONLY and I Repeat ONLY if there is a Vice Min and I have at least 4 RAs. Note that the RAs will be over the cities and will be fully responsible for their CP and Worker duties in those cities. The plan is to assign the workers to Regional areas and have an Administrator over that area's cities and workers.

Go Ghengis! There are a few RAs already. You just need a few more + one willing to be Vice.

I might be willing to be Vice, but I have to think about it; I make no promises on that front.

	12-12-2002 05:09									#80
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A warning... I probably won't be able to do turnchats until winter break.

	12-12-2002 06:20									#81
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Skywalker, as an RA you wouldn't need to be a turnchats, just make sure the DM has orders for the cities and workers in your region.

	12-12-2002 08:13									#82
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Ghengis, consider this a presendential request. Please run for DM.
Aggie

	12-12-2002 10:41									#83
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I could also be a RA for Ghengis, or anyone else.

	12-12-2002 10:50									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 I could also be a RA for Ghengis, or anyone else.

That's 4 by my count...

Now will you run, Ghengis?

If you don't, I'll keep using that smilie.

	12-12-2002 11:05									#85
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If more RAs are needed, I am also willing to volunteer to manage a region.

--Togas

	12-12-2002 12:25									#86
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Kloreep I count five, including myself. I might not win the SMC election....and am definitely interested in managing a region.

This is looking really nice. See? Ya offer official jobs to people with not quite as much work involved, and they come out in droves!

	12-12-2002 12:54									#87
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Okay, I'll run.

	12-12-2002 13:15									#88
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Noooooooo!!!!! Now the leaderhead will never get finished!

Guess that means another 5 requests from 10 people every day for another month.

	12-12-2002 14:24									#89
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Good on ya, GhengisFarb.

	12-12-2002 14:52									#90
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Okay, I'll run.