13-12-2002 09:21									#91
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I'm going to create another thread about guns...

	13-12-2002 09:55									#92
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"Offensive free speech, as loathsom as it is, deserves protection as long as it doesn't cause clear and emminent harm. Someone claiming offensive speech should be censored simply because it offends their sensabilities just isn't a good enough reason for censorship"

It's not that the speech is offensive, it's that it intimidates people and threatens them, and you aren't allowed to do that even with your own property.

	13-12-2002 10:09									#93
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I agree... threatening people should be against the law... but specifically making the act of burning a cross illegal is wrong. It's the threatening part that needs to be addressed. I should still be able to burn a cross on my own property if I wanted to. The line of legality should be drawn at the intimidation/threatening part.

	13-12-2002 10:28									#94
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quote: It's not that the speech is offensive, it's that it intimidates people and threatens them, and you aren't allowed to do that even with your own property.

I think there's legally punishable intimidation if and only if there's an associated agressive act; there's an expression of hatred, yes, but there is no expression of a threat. Therefore, burning a cross on someone else's property and the like should carry heavier penalties than your normal arson, while burning a cross in your own property should be legally fine.

	13-12-2002 10:37									#95
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You aren't allowed to utter threats of death, mutilation, etc. Serious threats are not free speech.

Is the cross a symbol equivalent to giving someone a letter that says 'if you don't get out of town I'll chop off your head'?

	13-12-2002 10:47									#96
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quote: Is the cross a symbol equivalent to giving someone a letter that says 'if you don't get out of town I'll chop off your head'?

Not if it is on your property.

	13-12-2002 10:54									#97
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Individual instances of cross burning should be prosecuted based upon the circumstances surrounding the issue. There needs to be a victim, and the threat needs to be shown. I am against any sort of no-tolerance law against the burning of crosses, or any other symbolic act. It's the threat that's illegal not the symbol.

	13-12-2002 11:55									#98
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"I think there's legally punishable intimidation if and only if there's an associated agressive act; there's an expression of hatred, yes, but there is no expression of a threat. "

I think an agressive act is something inherently associated with the burning cross given what it historically represents. Refering back to the original article:

quote: A burning cross is indeed highly symbolic, Justice Thomas said, but only of something that deserves no constitutional protection: the "reign of terror" visited on black communities by the Ku Klux Klan for nearly 100 years before Virginia passed the law, which the Virginia Supreme Court declared unconstitutional a year ago. A burning cross is "unlike any symbol in our society," Justice Thomas said. "There's no other purpose to the cross, no communication, no particular message," he continued. "It was intended to cause fear and to terrorize a population."

The Burning Cross is naturally intimidating and should rightfully be banned.

	13-12-2002 12:13									#99
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quote: The Burning Cross is naturally intimidating and should rightfully be banned.

If its on your own property, then it shouldn't.

	13-12-2002 13:59									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: The Burning Cross is naturally intimidating and should rightfully be banned. If its on your own property, then it shouldn't.

So I can have whatever I want on my property? What it be ok for the person who lived across from you to put a big sign on his yard saying: "IMRAN LEAVE THIS NEIGHBERHOOD AT ONCE OR WE WILL SHOOT YOU"?

	13-12-2002 17:42									#101
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I liked DF's KILL ALL NIGGERS example. If I put that in my neighbourhood the threat would be to me.

	13-12-2002 17:43									#102
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AS DF doesn't even live in this galaxy then he can probably put what he likes up.

Andromeda is very tolerant(and of course no-one forces anyone to do anything)

	13-12-2002 18:05									#103
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It would be fun to set up my own road system. I'd have a toll gate and stand their with a big staff telling everyone "to pass you must best me!"