18-12-2002 09:39									#31
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quote: Hmm, if you mean kabuki, that's not really Japanese opera. There really is no such thing as traditional Japanese opera.

Were you expecting Spink to actually know what he was talking about?

	18-12-2002 09:46									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Were you expecting Spink to actually know what he was talking about?

Touche...

	18-12-2002 09:47									#33
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Godzilla.

	18-12-2002 09:50									#34
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Doesn't anyone read the first post of threads?

	18-12-2002 09:57									#35
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They are just telling you things that are worse than Yoko Ono.

Mighty Morphin Power Rangers, for example.

ACK!

	18-12-2002 09:59									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Doesn't anyone read the first post of threads?

You should have named the thread something else.

	18-12-2002 10:02									#37
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quote: You should have named the thread something else.

I know, I know.

	18-12-2002 10:04									#38
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Well, I think you can start two threads a day here. Try again and please don't muck it up this time.

	18-12-2002 10:07									#39
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I don't really care that much. I just heard this on the news and couldn't believe what a ***** Yoko was being.

	18-12-2002 10:56									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu Have you noted that there aren't many people who are often referred to only by their first name but seemingly never by only their last name? In fact, there are Saddam Hussein, Jiang Zemin and... Yoko Ono.

You are aware that Jiang Zemin's last name is actually Jiang, not Zemin, right?

In Chinese the family name precedes the given name, unless you're a potsticker.

	18-12-2002 11:05									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I think you could excuse him on this. The Western media is hardly consistent on the ordering of Asian names. They switch from personal-family to family-personal all the time, seemingly at random. With no experience in Asian family names, it can be next to impossible to tell which is which.

	18-12-2002 11:28									#42
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Spammer

	18-12-2002 12:20									#43
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I think Yoko gets a lotta crap for stuff that isn't her fault, like breaking up the Beatles. I thik we should remember that our idols are intitled to lives of their own, that John loved Yoko, and that the Beatles were in serious trouble without Yoko's input. They would have broken up when they did regardless. They were worn out and sick of living with each other.

Yoko isn't just the inheritor of John's estate, she is also the protector of his legacy. She fights like hell to potect his image, and let's face it, Lennon was the far more important and artistic member of the Lennon and McCartney writing team. Most of Paul' stuff since he's left the Beatles, while being entertaining, has been mindless fluff.

And why isn't anyone upset that McCartney's changing stuff?

	18-12-2002 12:33									#44
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I think Yoko gets a lotta crap for stuff that isn't her fault, like breaking up the Beatles. I thik we should remember that our idols are intitled to lives of their own, that John loved Yoko, and that the Beatles were in serious trouble without Yoko's input. They would have broken up when they did regardless. They were worn out and sick of living with each other. Yoko isn't just the inheritor of John's estate, she is also the protector of his legacy. She fights like hell to potect his image, and let's face it, Lennon was the far more important and artistic member of the Lennon and McCartney writing team. Most of Paul' stuff since he's left the Beatles, while being entertaining, has been mindless fluff. And why isn't anyone upset that McCartney's changing stuff?

I agree for the most part. As for Paul puting his name first on songs he wrote, I think that is a mistake. Sure he wrote most of the biggest hits, but Lennon wrote most of the better songs that IMO will stand the test of time better than a lot of the crap McCartney wrote. By making such a serious distinction, Sir Paul is dooming himself to being credited for all of the fluff that he wrote, while giving all of the credit for what many consider the more inventive and interesting stuff to John. Anyhoo, it's his call.

	18-12-2002 22:53									#45
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You guys are crazy. Paul was a vital part of the Lennon-McCartney writing team and a better songwriter than John in my opinion. You can dismiss all of Paul's work as "fluff" if you want, but his pop sensibilities are what made the Beatles the biggest band in history.

And how can anyone consider "Yesterday", "Hey Jude" and many of the other McCartney-Lennon songs to be fluff?

	19-12-2002 13:08									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten You guys are crazy. Paul was a vital part of the Lennon-McCartney writing team and a better songwriter than John in my opinion. You can dismiss all of Paul's work as "fluff" if you want, but his pop sensibilities are what made the Beatles the biggest band in history. And how can anyone consider "Yesterday", "Hey Jude" and many of the other McCartney-Lennon songs to be fluff?

"When I'm 64"?
"Maxwell's Silver Hammer"?

Compare to "Tomorrow Never Knows", "Revolution #9" etc. Which tunes do you think will be remembered for breaking new ground?

I don't hate McCartney or anything like that, I even own a couple of Wings albums which should be all the proof one would ever need. But I really think Lennon was the more creative artist. Certainly his work stands up better than McCartney's for me in the 35 years or so that I've been a Beatles fan.

	19-12-2002 13:43									#47
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The only reason Lennon is thought of more highly than Macartney is that he is dead

	19-12-2002 13:49									#48
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger The only reason Lennon is thought of more highly than Macartney is that he is dead

Maybe so, but I liked his writing better than Paul's long before he died, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who feel the same way.

	19-12-2002 13:53									#49
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I have no problem with people preffering Lennons music to Macca's. I do have a problem with the mythologising(is that a word) of Lennon.He sat in a bed for peace, so what. he wrote imagine which is a great album. He was one of the forrunners of musicians thinking they have something important to say, when infact all they are is musicians.

Oh and he beat up his wife

	19-12-2002 14:20									#50
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger I have no problem with people preffering Lennons music to Macca's. I do have a problem with the mythologising(is that a word) of Lennon.He sat in a bed for peace, so what. he wrote imagine which is a great album. He was one of the forrunners of musicians thinking they have something important to say, when infact all they are is musicians.

I don't idealize Lennon believe me. I only care about him as a musician and writer, which are two things that I think he was really good at.

quote: Originally posted by TheStinger Oh and he beat up his wife

If only it had been Yoko at least Drake would be happy.

	19-12-2002 14:51									#51
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quote: Compare to "Tomorrow Never Knows", "Revolution #9" etc. Which tunes do you think will be remembered for breaking new ground?

John was the more experimental of the two; I fully admit that. If you give a **** about breaking new ground, then I guess John is your man.

I prefer good songs, however, and Paul was always better at cranking out beautiful pieces of music. He may not have been as groundbreaking as John, but I'll take McCartney's catalog over Lennon's any day of the week.

And Revolution #9 is absolute shite.

	19-12-2002 14:56									#52
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quote: I have no problem with people preffering Lennons music to Macca's. I do have a problem with the mythologising(is that a word) of Lennon.

My thoughts exactly. The mythic reputation that has sprung up around Lennon produces statements like this...

quote: and let's face it, Lennon was the far more important and artistic member of the Lennon and McCartney writing team.

that piss me off to no end.

Why can't McCartney get any respect? Lennon provided the experimental drive and lyrical weight, while McCartney provided the melodic sense and pop sensibilities. They were a team and it really irks me when people act like Lennon was the whole show. I can certainly see why McCartney gets upset about it.

	19-12-2002 15:28									#53
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Macca is great. I really would find it tough to pick a favorite between John and Paul. I guess if I had to pick one, it would probably be John. But my all time favorite Beatle is neither of the Lennon-McCartney combo, but George rather.

PS Revolution 9 rocks!

	19-12-2002 15:32									#54
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quote: PS Revolution 9 rocks!

You're obviously not serious about this. I refuse to be fooled twice in one night.

	19-12-2002 16:57									#55
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While searching the web for info on the real songwriting credits for Lennon-McCartney songs, I stumbled on some interesting facts I didn't know before.

First, it turns out that only about 5% of the Lennon-McCartney songs were true collaborations. 15% were written mainly by John, while the rest were written primarily by Paul. (edit: I haven't been able to confirm this piece of information, so it may be BS. From the little research I've done, Paul seems to have written more songs than John, but not a huge number. The split seems more like 60-40)

Second, while "Tomorrow Never Knows" was written by John, he was inspired by experiments Paul had been doing with tape loops and electronic sounds. So Paul was really the trendsetter on that one.

Interesting stuff, although it has been hard to find. Most sites just list the songwriting credits as Lennon-McCartney and leave it at that. It's hard to figure out who wrote what.

Last edited by Drake Tungsten on 19-12-2002 at 17:31

	19-12-2002 17:13									#56
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It's funny that there is such universal love for Lennon but hate for Yoko.

	19-12-2002 17:24									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu In fact, there are Saddam Hussein, Jiang Zemin and... Yoko Ono.

... and Napoleon (Bonaparte)

	19-12-2002 18:53									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten And Revolution #9 is absolute shite.

I don't listen to it every day, but it's interesting and one of the first instances I can remember of sound collage, and on a huge album owned by tens of millions to boot. Consider the impact that sound collage has had on music since that time. What would Hip Hop be without the samples? Nothing. The Beatles generally and John in particular pushed the envelope and improved the quality of music generally by making a thousand cool ideas ok for other smaller bands to try out. The difference in artistic freedom in music from the early 60s to the early 70s was huge, and the Beatles deserve a large share of the credit for combining a willingness to experiment whilst still remaining oustandingly commercially viable. Both Lennon and McCartney deserve credit for this. I just think Lennon's stuff is more interesting in general, though both wrote some excellent stuff.

	20-12-2002 00:08									#59
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quote: Both Lennon and McCartney deserve credit for this. I just think Lennon's stuff is more interesting in general, though both wrote some excellent stuff.

I don't think we're in disagreement here. I think we both agree that Lennon and McCartney were geniuses; we just differ on who was the better genius.