10-01-2003 00:36									#31
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That's some nice tapdancing around the main issue: Greece, the birth place of democracy, and here complicity with the murderous regime in Serbia.

	10-01-2003 00:37									#32
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Also did you too see when Albanians were ethnically cleansing Kosovo under the proverbial impassivity of NATO "peacekeeping forces"? Or did you just look the other way in that particular instance?

No, actually that's the part that bothered me the most about Kosovo. While we were there it all changed rapidly, and we soon were increasingly unable to hold in check the anger and hatred that many of the Kosovar Albanians had for the Serbs.

Most of the deals that were struck were reneged on, and the Serbs suffered horribly for what other Serbs had done.

But your ignorance must be forgiven, as you only see one side, and the side you see is spoonfed to you. A fundamental problem in this world, that only will be fixed by knowledge.

	10-01-2003 00:39									#33
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The US has killed tens of thousands of people since the begginign of the '90s and is widely recognized by the world as the "barbarian". Your home violence and your total lack of social care is nothing to gloat upon.

You are also the target of terrorists. I don't think you are in any poisition to speak about anything, if you are an american Shi.

US bashing is wild all over the globe and antiamericanism is stronger than ever.

Perhaps you should worry where the next terrorist attack would be and who would die instead of trolling the Greeks.

	10-01-2003 00:41									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Flatlander Fox But your ignorance must be forgiven, as you only see one side, and the side you see is spoonfed to you. A fundamental problem in this world, that only will be fixed by knowledge.

Sorry but that's the American problem as the whole world has realized by now.

	10-01-2003 00:41									#35
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 The US has killed tens of thousands of people since the begginign of the '90s and is widely recognized by the world as the "barbarian". Your home violence and your total lack of social care is nothing to gloat upon.

More tapdancing and errors in logic. Are you really a Greek?

	10-01-2003 00:41									#36
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It appears that every nation on this planet has skeletons in its closet. The difference, however, appears when it comes to who is and who isn't willing to admit to having those skeletons and the degree to which they'll go towards banishing the old bones.

Gatekeeper

	10-01-2003 00:42									#37
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Interesting comparison arises here.


Failure to stop the massacre at Srebrenica (even though the chances of sucess were marginal) brings down one european government, the Dutch.

At the same time, support of another european government to the criminals that commited those crimes at Srebrenica, as well as sending volunteers to assist in the butchery, not only does not bring it down but makes citizens of that other country - proud (FE paiktis). Greece.


The latter is the current president of EU

quote: quote: quote: 'We have only God and the Greeks on our side.' That line brought tears to my eyes.

While you were at the rally, or now, remembering the rally?

I guess being a professional hatemonger has its touching moments

	10-01-2003 00:42									#38
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BTW, many of the victims in Sarejevo were from the siege, as I stated in that post.

And the airstrikes on Sarejevo actually took place AROUND the city, bombing those positions who had held the city under wraps.

I have vacationed in Greece, and met very few people who are certifiable Xenophobes. (Of course, I was masquerading as a German)

My opinion of the country won't change because of a few ignorants.

	10-01-2003 00:43									#39
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Vet,
Yes I was very touched

	10-01-2003 00:47									#40
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Perhaps you should worry where the next terrorist attack would be and who would die instead of trolling the Greeks.

I am able to admit our shortfalls, especially the ones I have witnessed with my own eyes.

You however, have once again came back to "Everyone hates America, and if you are American you are a warmongering Imperialist."

And I thought you would be able to defend your position without resorting to cliche.

	10-01-2003 00:48									#41
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axi,

quote: Personally I think that Milosevic, Karadjic, Mladic, e.a. are no more guilty than their Croat and Bosnian muslim counterparts, the KLA leaders and the NATO :hawks". Every warmonger is essentially the same and they all have their hands soaked in blood and their records full with crimes.

This is true, if you simplify things to simply calling everyone 'warmongers'. But deeper investigation to the causes and effects will show exactly who is guilty of what. Which we should insist on, since 'spreading the blame equally', which you basicaly did (and most people do) serves noone. Except maybe as seed for future wars.

The article mentiones Greek volunteers were decorated by Biljana Plavsic and Radovan Karadjic. The latter is still at large (drinking ouzo with paiktis on some greek beach :shame but Biljana recently pleaded guilty in the court of Hague.

I just remember one thing she said that media carried: "in our fear not to became victims again, we became the agressor". I m sure everyone interested can find the details on the hague web pages. This is highest Bosnian Serb official yet to admit guilt. She was president of 'Republic of Bosnian Serbs'.

quote: The Greek "volunteers" are then no more guilty than the muslims from all over the world that went to fight with the Bosnians and the KLA. This sort of people are something between the Taliban and the French Foreign Legion: they do it for a mix of profit and doctrine, but they are not the sort of thing whole nations and governments should be liable about. I bet many american mercenaries have done that and worse, in the service of dictators in South America, Africa and Asia.

I m glad you, unlike paiktis, are not defending actions of those volunteers.


The important thing here is that it wasnt only couple hundred volunteers. The article mentions priests, government and rallies. Which would demonstrate church, political and popular support.


And I agree with you that there are fanatics likely to volunteer in every country. But we cant compare Greece with Afghanistan, or Greeks with Taliban, can we?


See my remark above about bringing down Dutch government. It is expected from a european country to condemn terrorists, not support them at rallies.


Dont get me wrong. I am not trying to spread liability or any sort of responsability for this on the entire Greek people. But for the support of Milosevic, I think that Greece got off lightly.


If Karadjic and Mladic get on trial and are found guilty, those who supported them should, in my humble opinion, be held responsible before Greek public.


And you are mentioning greek right wingers. The article says:

quote: The US-published book, yet to be printed in Greek, records in shocking detail the relationship between the two Orthodox nations, including the leaking of Nato military intelligence under socialist leader Andreas Papandreou.

... that all this happened under Greek socialists?

	10-01-2003 00:52									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Greece is not a civilized Western Nation

That's why they're now in the EU. Turkey will be next. It's easier to absorb them than control them as independants.

	10-01-2003 00:52									#43
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Well cliches or not it's true. You are trembling in fear because of the terrorists. Your social liberties have already been curtailed. And antimericanism is indeed getting stronger and stronger all over the world, even coming form the mouth of elected and very high power officials.

And I do think it would be better if you think where the next terrorist attack will take place instead of trolling like Shi does.

I mean, for the love of God, an american, let alone a murderer supporter like Shi, cannot speak.
Home violence and pathetic social care are also present, not to mention school shootings.


There is no way for Shi to speak about Greece. It is such an hybris.

	10-01-2003 00:53									#44
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quote: And I thought you would be able to defend your position without resorting to cliche.

You must be new.

-Arrian

	10-01-2003 00:53									#45
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Jesus, all the trolls and DLs gathered here. Bye.

	10-01-2003 00:55									#46
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Jesus, all the trolls and DLs gathered here. Bye.

That's it. Run away like the whipped dog you are!

	10-01-2003 00:55									#47
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quote: Home violence and pathetic social care are also present, not to mention school shootings.

Which of COURSE disqualify any American from pointing out wrongdoing elsewhere.

By that logic, Pattycakes, no one could criticize anyone else ever, since all nations have at some point committed wrongs.

Speaking of hypocrisy, Paiktis, you calling someone a troll is like a pot calling a kettle black.

-Arrian

	10-01-2003 00:55									#48
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Hey I'm alone against dozens of trolls and DLs. Of course I'll run.

	10-01-2003 00:56									#49
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Is someone who disagrees with you a trolls, Paiktis?

About the DL charge, I wouldn't know. I have none. If you think I do, have one of the Admins check on me.

-Arrian

	10-01-2003 00:59									#50
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Not anyone who disagrees. Anyone who trolls. Which is most in this thread. And the DLs, yeah.

	10-01-2003 00:59									#51
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Tsk, tsk, Paiktis.

	10-01-2003 00:59									#52
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HAHA, I am somewhat new to OT.

And it looks like hubris has retired from the battlefield.

The U.S. might have trembled for a day... But terrorists will be trembling for a long time.

And you would be suprised what terrorists do when faced with American military power.

They only tremble for a second, that's for sure.

The funny thing is, why didn't the Greeks try and defend Slobo when NATO invaded Kosovo.

I guess hubris only gets you so far.

	10-01-2003 01:02									#53
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I figure if this was a real war, it would be so easy.

I would just pop my head up, stick my tongue out and the whole batallion of kicked in the ass by my trolls and DLs would start running behind me like a gibberling mass foaming at the mouth and screaming for revenge.

I'd just jump off a cliff, get a solid grasp on some branches and watch them all founder down the chasm

	10-01-2003 01:02									#54
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I don't see trolling going on here, Paiktis. You expressed support (strong support) for people accused of doing some pretty awful stuff. Then, someone who was ACTUALLY THERE posted info backing up that awful stuff, and you began ranting about school shootings in the USA. Who do you think you're kidding?

-Arrian

	10-01-2003 01:04									#55
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What?

Just take a look at most of the posts before mine. Most were trolls!

That was an ambush made by the ghouls whose souls I've taken in the past

	10-01-2003 01:06									#56
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And did again Bye

	10-01-2003 01:06									#57
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All the sides involved in the Yugoslavian conflict committed horrible atrocities. Now which of them is proclaimed the absolute evil? Doesn't this essentially depend on propaganda? And we know that the Western propagandistic machine is formidable. After all, what is the essential difference between Milosevic and the recently deceased president of Croatia (don't remember how to spell his name)?

	10-01-2003 01:07									#58
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I figure if this was a real war, it would be so easy. I would just pop my head up, stick my tongue out and the whole batallion of kicked in the ass by my trolls and DLs would start running behind me like a gibberling mass foaming at the mouth and screaming for revenge. I'd just jump off a cliff, get a solid grasp on some branches and watch them all founder down the chasm

Why not instead of posting off topic stuff like this, you tell me in an unemotional, non-cliched way why you support the Greeks doing this?


BTW: If you would do some research, you would find that I have been a member here for quite a while, post regularly at this forum (Although in a different area) and at another.

Instead of arming yourself with idealism and emotion, arm yourself with facts.

	10-01-2003 01:07									#59
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Tujman.

He also was a war criminal before the recent Balkan wars. In WWII.

	10-01-2003 01:09									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Flatlander Fox Instead of arming yourself with idealism and emotion, arm yourself with facts.

I arm myself with breaking da bones to the ground trolling since this was a premeditated troll and DL gathering of funny little witches whose brooms I've stuck up their arse in the past