15-01-2003 14:28									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

In civ2 micro is making tweaks to your cities, and moving non-combat units around. I think people who complain there is too much micro need to play a different game.

	15-01-2003 15:47									#32
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quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Why would I be interested in de-evolution? Civ3 is a big step up from Civ2, IMO.

Nope, you certainly not alone

I must say I wouldn't mind a public works either..

quote: What micromanagement?

Caravans, diplomats, spies

	18-01-2003 20:01									#33
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quote: Civ3 is a big step up from Civ2, IMO.

I agree. It was a great leap backwards.

	19-01-2003 02:03									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu I agree. It was a great leap backwards.

How can a step up be a leap backwards?

Methinks you're trying a bit hard to be witty...

	19-01-2003 04:01									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Civ3 improved a few things, but on the whole it cut out and reduced too much of the game.


I really don't like how the tech tree works.

	19-01-2003 04:58									#36
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Tech caps blow.....that is for sure. Strangely I came around to the way the tech leader is penalised though.......for SP at least.

	19-01-2003 05:41									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

anyone but infogames and activiision can give it a whirl

	19-01-2003 06:21									#38
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They should bring back farms, even though they seem have to integrated the supermarket into the Marketplace. And the civs need more unique units. And certain civilizations had female military leaders, like the ancient Britons.
Also, we could use another age, perhaps? CTP and Test of Time got it almost right. Technology should not just stop all of a sudden ith the last techs Civ 3 had. And we have those kinds of capabilities and we aren't even close to building a colony ship, or even a mission to Mars.
And that's another thing. Going to the moon doesn't mean you're pretty much immediately ready to go to and colonize another planet. The Mars Project ought to be a Wonder right at the beginning of a Future Era. This new Era would bring technology to get rid of most of the leftover pollution
I know I'm not talking about Civ2.5, but perhaps about Civ4.
I wasn't sure people would respond to this as a new thread. But if you want me to, I'll put in in a new thread.
Just thought I'd put a couple of my opinions out there.

	19-01-2003 09:59									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

And I happen to enjoy steamrolling the AI, but to each his own. I happen to enjoy conquering the world in Civ games.

	19-01-2003 12:48									#40
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quote: Methinks you're trying a bit hard to be witty...

Ooops. So it seems. Sorry.

	19-01-2003 20:22									#41
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Tech caps blow.....that is for sure. Strangely I came around to the way the tech leader is penalised though.......for SP at least.

I haven't payed much attention to that. How does it work?

	19-01-2003 20:44									#42
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Well you cannot research an advance in any less than 4 turns, now matter how many beakers you produce.

Also, the leader is penalised through the amount of beakers needed to research a new tech being higher than what the second person to research it will experience and so on......rather than fixed beaker costs as in other civ games.

	19-01-2003 23:56									#43
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Hmm ... I think I might prefer fixed beaker costs over the tech leader being penalized for being *too* good. Sounds politically correct to me.

Gatekeeper

	19-01-2003 23:59									#44
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Well for MP the case for it is bad.......but although I didn't like it at first for SP it works quite well.

	20-01-2003 02:54									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Hmm ... I think I might prefer fixed beaker costs over the tech leader being penalized for being *too* good. Sounds politically correct to me. Gatekeeper

Its true in reality.

The first nation to discover a technology often does it by trial and error, whereas the second and third (etc..) nations know it is possible and roughly how to acheive it. A technology that has been around for ages is very easy to emulate.

I would prefer to see the ability to steal and trade technology removed from the game, and replaced with "assistance" and "technology spies", which reduce the cost of developing a technology. Its more realistic - its not like you can walk into a nation and steal the technological secrets. Normally you would steal plans or working models from which you glean how to build your own version of the technology.

	20-01-2003 03:05									#46
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Yes that would be better......the tech stealing used to bother me when I started civving......seems like second nature now but I take your point.

	20-01-2003 13:41									#47
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SD:

Hmm ... that's a very sound idea. Too bad none of the Civ versions incorporate it.

In the meantime, I've "hobbled" the diplomats and spies a bit by making them bound by ZOCs and, for the spies, reducing their movement points to two. I've thought about eliminating them from the game entirely (or making their move allowances zero), but that takes a bit much away from the game, particularly the AI (which uses them extensively to poison water supplies, subvert cities and destroy improvements).

BTW, does the AI ever use spies to set off nukes?

Gatekeeper

	20-01-2003 14:22									#48
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Not in civ2.

	20-01-2003 23:12									#49
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Dang! I was hoping it'd do that at deity or something. Of course, people would be howling if that really was one of the AI's options.

Gatekeeper

	21-01-2003 21:29									#50
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Not in civ2.

hi ,

are you sure

have a nice day

	21-01-2003 23:13									#51
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , are you sure have a nice day

Yup. Check out the Great library in Civ2 strat.....IIRC there is a long thesis on spies.

	21-01-2003 23:54									#52
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Thesis? I wondered what you were a doctor of.

	22-01-2003 00:28									#53
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'S not my thesis, oh wise and crunchy one.

	23-01-2003 15:32									#54
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me wants Civ2½! best features of civ2 and civ3 combined can't be bad.

	23-01-2003 15:56									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Andemagne me wants Civ2½! best features of civ2 and civ3 combined can't be bad.

Ah, but imagine if they only took the worst bits... that would be a monster of a game, I'd say.

-Jam

	24-01-2003 02:08									#56
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Yup. Check out the Great library in Civ2 strat.....IIRC there is a long thesis on spies.

hi ,

and what about some of the mods or scenarios

there is at least one scenario in CIV II where a spy ( script activated ) bombs a city and the country splits in two , ....

have a nice day

	24-01-2003 02:47									#57
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Well sure it might happen in a mod or scenario.....but that wasn't the question.

	24-01-2003 03:05									#58
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Well sure it might happen in a mod or scenario.....but that wasn't the question.

hi ,

its been a long time , .....

its funny that the AI would never use it , ..... in CIV II

really funny , its time to play a couple CIV II games again , ....

have a nice day

	25-01-2003 01:08									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Andemagne me wants Civ2½! best features of civ2 and civ3 combined can't be bad.

Hi Andemagne, a laudable goal, but who picks. I expect your list would be different from mine. And as was said above, you might get some of the worst rather than the best. Although, just civ2 with a really good AI would make me mostly happy. For at least a few months .

I just got civ3, so I'm going to be able to put together my own wish list for Civ2½ soon! Of course I'm planning to find a mod soon that moderates some of the oft-discussed civ3 sillinesses fairly soon after playing the basic patched game.

	25-01-2003 21:47									#60
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we tried this, and we got civ3 and your right, everyones wishlist is different