26-05-2004 00:52									#31
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testing if this thread is still open...

	26-05-2004 00:56									#32
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okay, now to my actual post.

how many other civs are in this game and how many are also democracy-driven ?

why not advertise in forums of other games if being a citizen is not CTP-specific ?

did i get this right that the citizens can open the turn to see where the nation is at and base their decisions on that ?

how much power have the president and his ministers ?
how often are they elected ? and do game turns or real time count for that ?

how detailed are the laws, the constitution, etc ?

do the players of the other civ(s) have access to each other's forums ? or what communication methods are used ?

	26-05-2004 04:24									#33
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Democracy is dead. Long live Communism!

Due to lack of interest, a succession game was started. Anyone who can play CTP is open to the game. All you need to do is download the game, play X amount of turns, the upload it for the next person. Until more poeple show interest in democracy, it is dead.

	27-05-2004 18:50									#34
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can i join this game?
(if i can)HOW??
thanx

	28-05-2004 01:02									#35
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there is no democracy game anymore, johny.
but id be interested in joining one should we start a new one.
but first id like my questions to be answered.

	28-05-2004 02:03									#36
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i dont no, you ll have to ask a more experienced player
never played it, i was just interested.
Anyways if you start a game count me in
thanx

	28-05-2004 02:07									#37
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no, that request aimed towards the people who would want me in for another democracy game.

	28-05-2004 03:20									#38
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Well if we can get more than 5 poeple to participate and play, we could have a democracy. Then, Math, I will be happy to answer every question you have about the game.

	28-05-2004 03:28									#39
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why not answer them before that ? it seems like most of the answers dont depend on the number of people we get, do they ?

	28-05-2004 10:03									#40
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Math, many questions would be answered if you set this forum to show all threads since the biginning. Then you would see the whole history of the democracy game in the other threads here. It is quite interesting, huge response initially, much dragging to set the constitution, everybody got bored, then just when it the game got going, no-one, and I mean nobody played the game anymore. Weird....

	28-05-2004 10:07									#41
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As I think about this sad history, it comes to mind that Birdman had a brilliant suggestion that went un-implemented. Birdman volunteered to lead a despot civ that would war against the democracy community as one of the "AI." I think this one addtion may have made the game more interesting, and may have even kept it alive.

	28-05-2004 12:40									#42
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I tried to get Birdy and quinns banned from this forum for the game but got no reply. So, I did try.

	29-05-2004 09:42									#43
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do or do not, there is no try

	29-05-2004 15:21									#44
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NO it wasn't Kalius's fault that the tyrant civ was not implemented. It was the democracy game community that didn't quite follow through and really set the game up with Bird and/or Quinns driving a Civ.

	29-05-2004 17:30									#45
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we could start out a game with several human civs (one-person tyrants as usual), with a, now read that, maximum turn rate.
then, we fill one civ after the other with interested people until there are enough for a democracy.
we could develop kind of a triumvirate system for the tyrant civs, filling up to 3 players, then stopping, so that it is not the same thing as a one-player civ and the demo-civ isnt too easy prey.

	29-05-2004 17:32									#46
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the maximum turn rate (in the beginning) is to give joining players time to join a game that is still developing.

	29-05-2004 21:42									#47
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Basically just sounds like a team game though

	29-05-2004 22:06									#48
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in which way where a 'real' democracy game wouldnt ?

	30-05-2004 02:41									#49
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Well there is just one civ ruled by the democracy community, not multiple. The community confirs how to play the game through elaborate machinations of govenment.

	30-05-2004 02:50									#50
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well, we could also make the other civs AIs or single player civs. however the former would make it too easy for the demo civ, the latter maybe too difficult.
also it would be a good quickstart. as long as the demo civ hasnt got enough players it can be run as a triumvirate civ.
but yes, i actually assumed more than one civ were demo civs. i think it would be the most desirable solution to have several demo civs, but i see that it is also the least likely. however, a few triumvirate civs, one being built up to a demo civ could be an option i think.

	02-06-2004 08:24									#51
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Trying to give the AI a great start, 9 settlers vs our 2-4 and 500,000 gold vs our 100-10,000. This would certainly help to make the AI more challenging in the beginning. How it will effect their later game play I do not know.

	02-06-2004 14:46									#52
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well, before we do that, i would rather have all other civs be 1-player human civs. still, if we can get enough players, i think a couple of 3-player triumvirate civs and one democracy civ with 20+ players would be nice, wouldnt it ?
just to feel the political 'dispute' in those other civs too.

	02-06-2004 16:08									#53
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The civ run by the committee would lose every time against several singly run human cities.

	02-06-2004 16:19									#54
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quote: Originally posted by checkMate The civ run by the committee would lose every time against several singly run human cities.

Why do you say that?

I am interested....

	02-06-2004 16:28									#55
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Because the committee never chooses the optimal strategy, rather they choose a strategy by consensus.

This has been shown many times. In Russia they often play chess games. Some master plays against the entire population of the country who vote on the moves of oneside of the chess game. The populace is a poor chess player indeed even though there are many strong chess masters in Russia.

	03-06-2004 01:44									#56
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but CTP is a multiplayer game. how do you know the other human civs would not fight each other ?

besides, the triumvirate system i proposed could be designed in a way that would cause the player in power to act more in the interest of keeping his power instead of beating the democracy civ.

	03-06-2004 05:56									#57
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I think that the other civs would be there only to kill the democracy civ. After we are done then yeah they may fight. But basically you would have them at our throat. That was certainly the despot's Birdman and Quinns intention in the last Demo game. In fact I think other despots were lining up as well Flame Flash to name one.

	03-06-2004 08:02									#58
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What about multiple democracy civs?

	03-06-2004 15:43									#59
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quote: Originally posted by checkMate I think that the other civs would be there only to kill the democracy civ. After we are done then yeah they may fight. But basically you would have them at our throat. That was certainly the despot's Birdman and Quinns intention in the last Demo game.

thats where the triumvirate system comes in (or whatever you want to call an inner-civ fight for power). but then again, might just overread it for the third time.

quote: Originally posted by Nimrod What about multiple democracy civs?

that would be the ideal. but unless we find a hell of a lot of players, we would need players that are part of more than 1 civ, which causes interest conflicts (in more than one meaning ).

	03-06-2004 15:47									#60
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quote: Originally posted by checkMate Because the committee never chooses the optimal strategy, rather they choose a strategy by consensus. This has been shown many times. In Russia they often play chess games. Some master plays against the entire population of the country who vote on the moves of oneside of the chess game. The populace is a poor chess player indeed even though there are many strong chess masters in Russia.

But surely in a DG the experts will present some of the best options, and if they are correctly explained they get voted for. If ideas are posted that have flaws, they are pointed out or worked out. Assuming we have a poster or three in the DG faction(s) who know what they are on about we shouldn't need to consider the team(s) lesser at all. Indeed, in other team DGs (particularly the Intersite ones where we fight for Poly pride) the extra people involved in a team are a big bonus - they can test extensively and compile any important information that a single person could not hope to do.