14-01-2003 21:16									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: hinting that it'll be gold very soon

If hint something will be out very soon for more than three months, people might start being suspicious of your hints. Possibly.

	14-01-2003 22:17									#32
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Rantz that the wonderful thing about the internet, it allows one to comment without having any idea of the scope and scale of the facts. Irene doesn't do anything to the site without being told to do so, and she has specific orders to deal with other things. Moreover, Irene does not have the ability to ban or edit posts, so any retribution or infliction of a 'communist state' isn't her action.

Seems to me you never experienced communism first hand. Lucky you! See what I was talking about wasn't the put them in a cellar and shoot them treatment - which would be somewhat comparable to a ban, if you don't mind tasteless analogies - but the lording and casual contempt for the clients that even the lowliest clerk in any state monoply was prone to display. To me, Irene's follow up comments bordered on downright rude and were certainly uncalled for, given the situation. Is that my problem? Nope. Is that your problem? I think so, but if you don't agree, I'm certainly not your appointed management consultant.

quote: Have hundreds of fans pestering you every day for a game that you want more than anything in the world to *give* them, plus trying to actually make deadlines on other projects and see how it begins to wear on your ability to not be snappy when confronted by the same question the 400th time. Just a wee bit frazzled and stressed it'll leave you. But, again it's easy to forget with the distancing mechanism of the internet that there are human beings on the other end of it when you start flinging accusations or the like, without knowing what the reality of the situation is.

Fine, you're her manager. If you don't see a problem then you don't. But as far as I'm concerned if she were my employee posting on the company's behalf on a board frequented by my most loyal clients, I'd take her acess away. You're all under a lot of press, but I've never seen you or Chanz post anything that even remotely rubbed me the wrong way like that - and you've withstood provacation far, far worse.

That's that.

	14-01-2003 23:50									#33
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Fine, you're her manager. If you don't see a problem then you don't. But as far as I'm concerned if she were my employee posting on the company's behalf on a board frequented by my most loyal clients, I'd take her acess away. You're all under a lot of press, but I've never seen you or Chanz post anything that even remotely rubbed me the wrong way like that - and you've withstood provacation far, far worse.

I've been following the crap on the other boards. Seems to me that those boys who get rubbed the wrong way have a problem with [gasp!!] A GIRL telling them the facts straight up.

I've seen Chantz and Rantz post things that were quite acidic and sniping in fact. What do the boys do? They slink away with their tails between their legs (mostly) and shut up for a while. Irene's posts seem to be mostly factual and devoid of emotion -- purposefully. Still it doesn't matter if there's no emotion in it, the boys take it hard and take it personally.

Fact is A GIRL is working on MOO3 and is privvy to info these young lonely basement boys are not. SHE tells them basic info and THEY treat it like a scolding from their mother.

Her fault? Me thinks not. Me thinks it is a case of misdirected prepubesent anger from boys who simply can't handle dealing with GIRLS in a way thats not teat-driven.

	14-01-2003 23:52									#34
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by moomin To me, Irene's follow up comments bordered on downright rude and were certainly uncalled for, given the situation. Is that my problem? Nope. Is that your problem? I think so, but if you don't agree, I'm certainly not your appointed management consultant. Fine, you're her manager. If you don't see a problem then you don't. But as far as I'm concerned if she were my employee posting on the company's behalf on a board frequented by my most loyal clients, I'd take her acess away. You're all under a lot of press, but I've never seen you or Chanz post anything that even remotely rubbed me the wrong way like that - and you've withstood provacation far, far worse. That's that.

Go Dude!!!!

	14-01-2003 23:59									#35
	Increase the size of your Attachments

AAAAh fuggedaboutit, Moomie. Don't become all Yinlike where you try to tell the companies how to do their PR and how to talk to people.

	15-01-2003 00:05									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I didn't think it was that big a deal what she said. I looked at it and was expecting alot worse from all the collective buttlock that people have. Let the developers sound off a little. If you're going to have some discussion with them, you can't expect them to be plaster saints. If you want that, you will just get soulless corpospeak.

Of course...in return...I think we ought to have freedom to speculate and troll...like is the "bigger than MOO3" something like losing the contract or going out of business, etc. But I'm not allowed to post those trolls so I won't. But still, I think you all should give Irene a break. And regardless, don't be so thinskinned. I like to think I can troll the developers, so its only fair if I don't run around like a little hurt boy when they cut lose a quip or two. Of course if I were Irene, I would have hit a lot harder.

	15-01-2003 00:11									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by campfreddie FYI, the Feb 28th date comes from a quote by rantz that went something like 'If it isn't out by the end of February I'll kill myself'.

Yes, and the sentence before that said the internal date (both IG and QS) for gold and release is WELL before that, hence why I said I'd off myself if it wasn't out by then. Markos has played the game, Xentax, and a few others here, they know how friggin close it is at this point.

(And no, you wiseacres, WELL before doesn't mean a week before the 28th of Feb...)

	15-01-2003 00:11									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by GP And regardless, don't be so thinskinned. I like to think I can troll the developers, so its only fair if I don't run around like a little hurt boy when they cut lose a quip or two. Of course if I were Irene, I would have hit a lot harder.

You have to be thinskinned, since no one can take what they try to dish out. You end up banned, like coolerthanyou.

	15-01-2003 00:33									#39
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Rantz Markos has played the game

actually, i havent

but Dan tells me he's thinking of droping his exams to play some more(and yes, sure, to release part 2 of the preview sooner )

	15-01-2003 01:09									#40
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by MarkG but Dan tells me he's thinking of droping his exams

You gave the job of Reviewing MOO3 to a child!

	15-01-2003 01:12									#41
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by ashbery You gave the job of Reviewing MOO3 to a child!

you remind me of an ad that says "better chew than talk"

	15-01-2003 01:57									#42
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by GP Of course...in return...I think we ought to have freedom to speculate and troll...like is the "bigger than MOO3" something like losing the contract or going out of business, etc. But I'm not allowed to post those trolls so I won't. But still, I think you all should give Irene a break. And regardless, don't be so thinskinned. I like to think I can troll the developers, so its only fair if I don't run around like a little hurt boy when they cut lose a quip or two. Of course if I were Irene, I would have hit a lot harder.

And, for the record GP the 'speculation' that you put forth a lot of times doesn't bug me. The 'Trolling' that makes me have to count to ten is when people question or dedication to the project, or how much we value the fans, or whether we realize that people are waiting impatiently for the game.

THOSE are the types of things that make me and count to ten so I don't thrash someone about the head and shoulders with my cane.

Honestly most of the MOO posting I'll be doing until the game is out will likely be here, since folks here at least seem to have *some* semblence of rational thought... lol

	15-01-2003 02:11									#43
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Rantz And, for the record GP the 'speculation' that you put forth a lot of times doesn't bug me.

you shouldnt have said that Rantz

* MarkG now waits for doom.....

	15-01-2003 02:19									#44
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by ashbery You gave the job of Reviewing MOO3 to a child!

being a university student means you're still a child.

* H Tower makes notes.


Mommy! can i have a lolipop? I wanna lolipop!




Who do you think is going to be the target audience of this game? 40 year old, white males?

	15-01-2003 03:22									#45
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by MarkG you shouldnt have said that Rantz * MarkG now waits for doom.....

I was so tempted. I need to wait for a little while 'til you cool down though. Have a couple good Community threads to start. Maybe at about 0400 Athens-time.

	15-01-2003 03:28									#46
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by moomin You're all under a lot of press, but I've never seen you or Chanz post anything that even remotely rubbed me the wrong way like that - and you've withstood provacation far, far worse.

What had me run away from posting was this exact behavior by Rantz (and other high up QS people). Of course, this is a while ago, on the old MoO 3 Delphi board when that was up. After several incidents that i really have never seen anything comparable to (by grown ups anyway), i decided to pack and go away

Then again, the very little contact i had with Irene was nothing but positive.

	15-01-2003 03:39									#47
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by GP Don't become all Yinlike

Perish the thought.

Much as I miss the guy, I'm not really that desperate.

	15-01-2003 04:32									#48
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by MarkG * MarkG now waits for doom.....

Maybe I could provoke a flame war between the GalCiv and Moo3 companies. That would probably drive a lot of traffic to Apolyton. And (just coincidentally) help me with the whole postcount thing. Could be fun while we wait to see which one comes out first.

	15-01-2003 04:35									#49
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Rantz And, for the record GP the 'speculation' that you put forth a lot of times doesn't bug me. lol

Hmmm. Maybe that means some of my shots in the dark hit. Perhaps you need some business help. I'm pretty good at analyzing problems and coming up with the unpleasant but true answer. Not too good at lying and keeping you happy with what you want to hear though...

	15-01-2003 04:44									#50
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Don K Hotay Febuary 28th? Unbe-f###ing-leavable!!! At this point, can even the loyal, bum-kissing, hardcore IG/QS fans ignore the suspicous nature of this game? I'm frustrated with everyone involved in the MOO3 project, the publishers, developers, the fans...the entire community. What an aggravating fiasco this has turned into. I don't care which or what kind of people are at the other end of the internet, because they deserve whatever crap gets thrown on them. Moreover, none of them deserve to be in the business that they're in, because they are abhorrently ignorant of the bottom line....not their bottome line, but THE bottom line {{{THE FANS}}}. I don't want this stupid game, and I don't care if you ever put it out, IG/QS. If I ever see any of the names involved in this project on other projects, I'll make it my mission to convince everyone to boycott it.

Gee, another of the "I want it now" generation speaks...

Tell me, did you turn red in the face, beat your fists on the floor and roll around some when you were done posting this? I have seen 2 year olds with more patience.

What industry do you work for? Why don't you tell us so we can ridicule you and tell you how wrong you are doing it, even and especially if we have no prior experience with what you do.

The game will be out when it's out, plain and simple. Complaining, whining and posting will not hurry it along. Most of the fans of the game are *extremely* frustrated, true, but yelling at the developers doesn't make them hurry, if anything (and if it were me) I'd work slower just because.

Patience is a virtue, try some on for size, you may like it.

	15-01-2003 05:25									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ozymandous but yelling at the developers doesn't make them hurry, if anything (and if it were me) I'd work slower just because.

indeed

	15-01-2003 05:30									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Rantz Yes, and the sentence before that said the internal date (both IG and QS) for gold and release is WELL before that, hence why I said I'd off myself if it wasn't out by then. Markos has played the game, Xentax, and a few others here, they know how friggin close it is at this point. (And no, you wiseacres, WELL before doesn't mean a week before the 28th of Feb...)

"Friggin close" will make a fine addition to the list of adjectives used by QS and IG to describe the imminence of the release.

Very Soon is still my #1 favorite. It warms my heart to be greeted with that every time I have opened the Moo3 website over the last SIX WEEKS. Every time that page comes up my Gaming Geek GF and I say togther in loud, firm voices "Very Sooooooooooon and the anguish of waiting is lessened temporarily. Then we play some moo2 over the net and she gets mad when I win.

When Hell finally freezes over, and very soon vanishes from the wonderfully informative and up-to-date Moo3 site, I will be very sad.

MasterDave

Very soooooooon!!

	15-01-2003 05:35									#53
	Suffering from ads?

I would have to believe that the only reason there is the level of anger focused at the developers is really solely due to a combo of very long development time combined with many many false promises of release for this game.

Although I know that some games have been in development for long periods and then came out and were great. Although I don't recall any other "long development" games making the same promises of release and letdown that MOO3 has.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I really think this has to be factored into trying to understand the reasoning behind the "bash the developers" mentality.

	15-01-2003 06:04									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

i think StarCraft got pushed back a lot, but blizzard fans kind of expect that sort of thing to happen. the whiny kids gave up a long time ago with blizzard, even the most think headed ones have learned that no amount of whining would help them out

	15-01-2003 06:53									#55
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I like to complain, so I'll whine a little, but these last delays are giving me a chance to pound Metal Dungeon into dust and finish the newest Robert Jordan book. Toss in another certification test to round out the wait and I'll be ready for galactic domination about the time MOO3 rolls into the stores...

* Harry chuckles as he clears level 20 with five players named Thom Merrilin while reciting Groupwise ports...

	15-01-2003 07:58									#56
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by vee4473 I would have to believe that the only reason there is the level of anger focused at the developers is really solely due to a combo of very long development time combined with many many false promises of release for this game. Although I know that some games have been in development for long periods and then came out and were great. Although I don't recall any other "long development" games making the same promises of release and letdown that MOO3 has. Please correct me if I am wrong. I really think this has to be factored into trying to understand the reasoning behind the "bash the developers" mentality.

ESATTO!!

Are gamers (and consumers in general) these days so damn full of understanding and patience that they don't realize what IG/QS have been doing is bull****? Just because it IS just a computer game doesn't make it any less important for a consumer to have and hope for. To me, this game was comparable to nothing less than a car or a house, because the tremendous enthusiasm and desire I have for it was spurred on and cultivated by the developers and the community of fans. Its been a massive ad campaign the last two or three years, and if the product being delayed by a week or a month or a quarter had been a car or a house, would anyone argue with any sort of rage or frustration I or anyone else felt?

And instead of making dull-wittted, ironically condescending remarks to those of us who are expressing genuine feelings, perhaps you should count to ten as some others do, become genuinely enlightened, and join in and let IG/QS know that what they are doing is BULL****!!!!!!

	15-01-2003 08:49									#57
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

All I gotta say, you all check out The Ur-Quan Masters? The re-release of Star Control II for the PC, made by regular people from the streets --

They came up with a game, when they have no money...they get it all done in months.

And some others take three years...code is code.

	15-01-2003 08:54									#58
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Errr...

They started with the code on the 3DO. They're porting it to linux. They came up with nothing original on their own. They're copying. They're tracing.

There's a HUGE difference. Moo3 didn't exist. The SC2 team knows exactly how things work and what they're supposed to look like. Heck, they even have the graphics and sound files pre-done for them.

And have you tried it? It's in ALPHA right now. Kind of. It crashes all the time, some of the races aren't playable...all sorts of issues. And this is with them having access to some kind of source code.

Also, SC2 is what, over 10 years old? There are a few more complexities nowadays than there were that long ago.

I am willing to bet that, if someone else had already written MOO3 for a platform, they might be a wee bit quicker. But we'd be awaiting a game that we had already played...ten years ago.

	15-01-2003 09:51									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Don K Hotay Are gamers (and consumers in general) these days so damn full of understanding and patience that they don't realize what IG/QS have been doing is bull****?

get a grip.

	15-01-2003 11:29									#60
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by H Tower get a grip.

no...why don't you lose a grip?