17-01-2003 10:09									#121
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I think Finland should shoulder its burden here and buy American drugs for HIV sufferers in Africa. Maybe kick in a little extra for the US government for basic research.

	17-01-2003 10:27									#122
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quote: I bet I can come up with reports of pirate software coming back into the states.

I KNOW there is pirate software coming back into the states, especially from Asia. So GP is right in the effect of disparate pricing schemes lead to a different equilibrium, based on the different prices, which may be below the Average Variable Cost, causing a loss of money.

quote: I was responding to the assertion Bodds, Imran, et al. were making on the idea that loose patent controls wrt drugs going to developing areas will hurt innovation here.

They will. They will invariably lead to less profit (or even no profit at a certain level). Disparate pricing schemes will not tend to maintain themselves for any real period of time. Different prices for the same goods will end up being equal after a period of time, and usually that won't make up the R/D costs that the pharma companies put in.

quote: To argue that this is wrong because the cheap drugs might find their way back to the developed world is unbelievably petty, given the huge profits the drugs companies make.

And which huge profits are these? You do realize that EVERY drug prototype (even those unsuccessful) costs the companies $1 billion in R/D costs. That's not counting the salaries of the scientists and workers. They make MUCH less that you or most people would believe.

quote: Is it socially desirable that 23 million HIV-positive Africans are unable to afford treatment, in order for new drugs to be made in the future, which they will also not get?

Well of course the dead ones will not get the drugs, but their ancestors probably will. Or do you think that certain areas of the world will always be doomed to poverty?

And even if Africans will not be able to get future drugs, would you hinder drugs for the rest of humanity (which does exist outside of Africa you know) so that 23 million can be saved now?

	17-01-2003 10:53									#123
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Ramo, Where are you getting your information on patentable subject matter? If what you are describing ever existed in France, it not longer exists there because the French patent law has been harmonized with European patent law, as are all other countries in Europe who are signatories to the European Patent Convention.

Here is the treaty's definition of patentable subject matter. There is no exclusion for "products," except in the case of medical procedures.

Patentable inventions
(1) European patents shall be granted for any inven-tions
which are susceptible of industrial application,
which are new and which involve an inventive step.
(2) The following in particular shall not be regarded as
inventions within the meaning of paragraph 1:
(a) discoveries, scientific theories and mathematical
methods;
(b) aesthetic creations;
(c) schemes, rules and methods for performing mental
acts, playing games or doing business, and programs
for computers;
(d) presentations of information.
(3) The provisions of paragraph 2 shall exclude pat-entability
of the subject-matter or activities referred to in
that provision only to the extent to which a European
patent application or European patent relates to such
subject-matter or activities as such.
(4) Methods for treatment of the human or animal
body by surgery or therapy and diagnostic methods
practised on the human or animal body shall not be
regarded as inventions which are susceptible of in-dustrial
application within the meaning of paragraph 1.
This provision shall not apply to products, in particular
substances or compositions, for use in any of these
methods.

	17-01-2003 11:06									#124
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Imran: Don't buy the false argument. If it's socially desirable that Africa has these drugs, then everybody should pitch in their share, starting with the Finns and Brits.

	17-01-2003 11:15									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo It just requires some thought and responsible decisions on our side. Hell, a lot of the "aid" to Africa isn't meant to get to the people in the first place. Don't give to states. Don't give to untrustworthy organizations. Give to NGO's that have acted responsibly with some guarantees of transparency. Not that hard if you put a little effort into it.

US proposed funding and distributing through NGO's, especially UN organizations. The offer apparently was rejected.

Another concern is liability. Can you imagine the uproar which will ensue the first time somebody dies from some pill which was cut with something in Sierra Leone?

	17-01-2003 11:19									#126
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DanS: spoken like a true American capitalist, make someone else pay for it

	17-01-2003 11:29									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Sava DanS: spoken like a true American capitalist, make someone else pay for it

Spoken like a true Eurocom. Make the US pay for it.

	17-01-2003 12:37									#128
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Why not, they steal enough money from everyone else ... anyways I live in the US foo...