28-11-2003 06:40									#301
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Turn 2181 to Comstar, quietly.

	28-11-2003 09:40									#302
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quote: Originally posted by H0bbes There isn't a chance of ever trusting someone who without provocation STARTS a war by ATTACKING a peaceful nation without warning. Hobbes

hmm -- how many times do you have to tell someone "If you do x and y I will feel threatened and take action" before it qualifies as a warning ??

	28-11-2003 16:54									#303
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Sent. Sorry about the turn again, This time I had a brain spasm and kepyt typing in the wrong game password..3 times.

SO the grea war has started. As a man of PEACE I am staying well out of it. Let the giants slug it out. Looks like the forces fo Flubber are winning, but heavy attrtion is occuring on both sides.

I ask that BOTH sides refrain from destroying each other! Make your point and come to a settlemant! Don't let the blood be spilled until both are so weak that the balance of power of Planet is swaved into the hands of bug eyed aliens!

	29-11-2003 07:07									#304
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Problem0- I have attepted twice to sendf the turn. Both times it bounched from Hobbes...possibly an ISP problem on my end or his end that the ISP needs to fix and probably won't happen for ages (as I worked in the ISP business and know how long this error can last).

Solution anyone?

	29-11-2003 17:43									#305
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Post the turn here as an attachment.

	29-11-2003 18:29									#306
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turn attached

Attachment: clockwork 2181.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	30-11-2003 21:51									#307
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I received a turn from hobbes labelled 2182 but it was 2181. I need a resend.

	01-12-2003 02:41									#308
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Correct turn sent.

Hobbes

	01-12-2003 11:53									#309
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Thanks

2182 to hercules

	02-12-2003 05:38									#310
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Turn 2182 to Comstar

	02-12-2003 16:44									#311
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Sigh.


I didn't want it to come to this. Hobbes has lost his mind.

Time for Peacekeepers to do some Peace ENFORCMENT.

Hobbes has lost his mind and now wishs to commit sucide, giving his ruined cities but thier still active inhabinitents to Flubber. And probabluy Planet too. Hobbes has NOTHING in the way of defence except for 80 year old synthmetal garrions and 4-6 year build time on new interceptors.

By that time the forces of Flubber the furious will have conqured all but a few scraps.

I may lose a few cities. I may even lose my entire COUNTRY in this process. But Hobby is going down, and he knows it.

Pity Planet won't see transedence

	02-12-2003 20:43									#312
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quote: Originally posted by Comstr Sigh. I didn't want it to come to this. Hobbes has lost his mind. Time for Peacekeepers to do some Peace ENFORCMENT.

I'm assuming that since you think Hobbes "has lost his mind", your enforcement would be against him but he IS a longstanding pactmate of yours so I did not know if that was what you meant.

quote: Originally posted by Comstr By that time the forces of Flubber the furious will have conqured all but a few scraps.

Flubber the Furious .. . LOL-- I like that-- I only wish my own assessment was as optimistic as yours.

quote: Originally posted by Comstr I may lose a few cities. I may even lose my entire COUNTRY in this process. But Hobby is going down, and he knows it. Pity Planet won't see transedence

I don't understand any of this-- Why would you lose your entire country if you attacked someone that is inevitably going down?? Or is your post a confusing show of support for Hobbes and a declaration of war on me. Why won't this Planet see transcendence?


So two questions
1. Was the turn passed?
2. Did you declare war on somebody last turn or is this just a statement of intention?

	03-12-2003 01:57									#313
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Yes I did the turn.

Hobbes declared war on me and told me I was next on his hit list.

He well may have tons of units out in te countryside and the oceans, but he ain't got anything left in his cities. As I said, he's comming hari-kari.

If Hobbes goes down (which from what I've seen of your units, vs his units, he will) the delicate and nice balance of power Planet had is destroyed.

	03-12-2003 03:36									#314
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All I can say is I should have attacked you, Comstr, turns ago. Note that I did not attack Flubber first, he attacked me. Secondly, there was no even balance of power it was heavily weighted towards Flubber and Hercules because of your pathetic research & non-existant army, Comstr. I gave you techs & you are still behind. Your loss is your fault, don't whinge about other players. The worst choice I made in this game was to Pact with you & now you have the temerity to attack me!!!!!!

Oh and the turn has been sent.

	03-12-2003 03:49									#315
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My these turn tracking threads are getting heavy and interesting. It is better than a soap.

	03-12-2003 05:13									#316
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2183 on to hercules

	03-12-2003 22:54									#317
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Just curious but who attacked who first in the Comstr-Hobbes fight ?? Both of you seem to say it was the other . . .

	04-12-2003 05:20									#318
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Turn 2183 to Comstar.

Hmm just noticed some change of ownerships going on.

	04-12-2003 06:05									#319
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SOME change of ownership?

Flubber, now that you have shown Hobbes what's what, and the penanly of arragance, can you disciss terms and halt the war? Millions of civilans are dieing (if only one side) and you've proved your point. Hobbes is no longer a threat, and if he was foolish enough to ignore your dicates he wouldn't last long anyway.

Please Flubber, halt your conquest and let is all get back to peaceful research and develepment.

In other news, the forces of Hobbes sent a pitful airstrike to attack one of my cities. In retalaiton I did the same to him. While he's wasiting time attacking me he's losing nearly all his cities to jump troops landing in his cities from the air.

Nothing's going to stop Flubber except Flubber, so Hobbes is trying to use Vegenence weapons aginast me. It won't change anything.

	04-12-2003 06:58									#320
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Turned. (If I said anything it would need to be censored and I might regret it. So I won't say anything more.)

Hobbes

	05-12-2003 00:38									#321
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Comstr

THis is a game . .. I am not trying to show the real Hobbes anything about anything. Its a roleplay and my angels feared the Hobbits military build-up and in the role-play were angered by previous border pushes and base placements.

IT is very very tough to stop a war once started . .. Generally you have made an enemy for the game ( but hopefully not for the next) and would need a good reason to stop. Whenever I have ceased a war, my enemy invariably struck back when they gained enough strength so the war doesn't stop, it only pauses.

If I were in hobbes shoes I would be even more peeved at you, a supposed ally, than at me, a neighbor with sometimes strained relations who did pretty much what I warned I would do. Emails between hobbes and I were full of scarcely disguised threats so there was no deception that we were bosom buddies in this one ( we have teamed up successfully in other games but I try to keep all my games separate and not let one influence the other)

I find your pleas for peace and your apparent fear of me are totally contradicted by your actions in going to war against hobbes. My assessment is that Hobbes did nothing but help you and I was shocked to see you attack him.

I may be the warmonger sometimes but , you know, I don't believe I have ever declared war on a PACTMATE unless the pact was stated to be explicitly for trade-- Its weird to say this in a game where I jumped somebody but I keep my word-- in fact hitting hobbes was in keeping with my repeated warnings about military build-up on my borders. If I merely wanted a military conquest, you would have been my target, but I try to roleplay and your faction had never done anything that would bring us into conflict

	05-12-2003 01:45									#322
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(note I havn't got the turn yet)

You told me either I break the pact with Hobbes (because he was staioning aircraft in my cities, which I'd noticed for some time but hadn't commented on) or I would be at war with you. Ergo I had a choice.

I HAD asked Hobbes if he wanted to do anything about you, as you were clearing starting to lead him. He said nothing and did nothing. I therefore did not built any militry up because AFAIK evertything was at peace.

Then you start saying war threats and Hobbes still hasn't ASKED FOR or TOLD ME anything. I therefore concluded that it was all a mistake and that if I stayed out of the war it could all be over and done with as a minor skirmish. Well that was wrong wasn't it. Hobbes refused to take the aircraft out of my cities and said so quite arragontly.

So I break my pact with hobbes (or AFAIK I'm at war with you) and he fiannly tells me I'm next after you (Flubber). Therefore I concluded Hobbes was going to attack me immidatly. I go to a war footing (nearly all Air Interceptors as purly a DEFENSIVE posture) but I hurruidly finish an attack chopper I had building for research. It goes off and attacks one of Hobbes cities, kills the single unit there, and Returns to Base. Hobbes then did the same to me on one of my cities. That's my war so far.

IF hobbes had told me he DID want to go to war withsomeone (the aliens, you, whatever) I probably WOULD have assitied him. He complained I didn't help him militirary. He never asked for it! Note that I COULD go to a war ecomany in less than 2 turns. Sure I didn't have the militry might of you or him, but that was never going to happen with my weakened ecominaic state. But he never asked for assistance. His *prices* for tech were too high for me.

I HAVE seen games were people don't war to exterimnation....appenrtly that dosn't happen in your games. From my point of view you had weakend Hobbes enough that he would be insane to keep fighting you (we both know he didn't have anything left pretty much in his cities). Though if he asked for peace and you don't want to do that, there's obviosly not much he can do about it either.

Or I.

	05-12-2003 11:00									#323
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quote: Originally posted by Comstr (note I havn't got the turn yet) You told me either I break the pact with Hobbes (because he was staioning aircraft in my cities, which I'd noticed for some time but hadn't commented on) or I would be at war with you. Ergo I had a choice. I HAVE seen games were people don't war to exterimnation....appenrtly that dosn't happen in your games. From my point of view you had weakend Hobbes enough that he would be insane to keep fighting you (we both know he didn't have anything left pretty much in his cities). Though if he asked for peace and you don't want to do that, there's obviosly not much he can do about it either. Or I.

comstr

I never told you you had to break pact with Hobbes but I did tell you I would attack any of your bases that he was staging attacks from. I thought that was a reasonable stance as otherwise he could raid me with impunity. I actually waited a couple of turns to see what you would do and ignored his first round of attacks from your bases. Your decision to war on him was your own . . you could have simply broken pact with him to kick his units from your bases and then re-establish the pact



I don't always war and have played PBEMs to transcendence but war is frequently a part of this game.

	05-12-2003 16:54									#324
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(Note: still waiting on turn, I will post when I send it)

Hobbes made it quite clear to me that when I broke Pact he wouldn't be remaking it, and would continue to base planes in my cities. I understand YOUR postion, he refused to understand MINE.

War's are fine. War's to annilation are not .

	05-12-2003 23:15									#325
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quote: Originally posted by Comstr (Note: still waiting on turn, I will post when I send it) Hobbes made it quite clear to me that when I broke Pact he wouldn't be remaking it, and would continue to base planes in my cities. I understand YOUR postion, he refused to understand MINE. War's are fine. War's to annilation are not .

Ok-- your actions are much more understandable to me now


I find your war comment to be curious though. When I have been on the losing end of a war and am no longer a factor in a game, I would actually prefer to be annihilated . I actually hate the idea of playing on ( 30 or 50 more turns) with a base or 3 when I know that I can have no impact on a game anymore . I would much rather have a speedy exit and inflict as much damage as possible. PBEMs take time to play and I don't enjoy playing out lost causes ( even though I always do play them out -- ).

If I have an advantage in a particular war, I have never understood why you would desist while an enemy is still strong .. . and stopping when the opponent is reduced to a last base or two-- just seems discourteous to me

Its irrelevant anyway as The university remains strong and I will be fighting them tooth and nail for a while just to hold what I have.

	06-12-2003 01:59									#326
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Turn 2184 to Comstar. At last

	06-12-2003 04:39									#327
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Sent.

	06-12-2003 13:24									#328
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Onwards.

	07-12-2003 10:38									#329
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2185 on to hercules

	09-12-2003 12:42									#330
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Sent.