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intrigue
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alright... here goes my venting on vegetarianism and animal rights activism... which I consider two closely related topics:
Generally, I think that eating anything is fine in moderation. Too much of anything can and probably will be harmful.
Most health problems related to eating habits are a result of an unbalanced diet - too much of one thing, and not enough of another.
Obviously meats provide a great source of protein. And I don't know the medical reasoning behind it (but I think its related to the type of proteins found in meats), but do others notice the overall complexion of true die-hard vegetarians is simply pale?
I view going vegetarian as an extreme, and ironically a health risk.
As far as the treatment of cows go... obviously anything to increase the living conditions is good... but it will be balanced against cost. In my view they "are just cows."
Probably the most humorous occurance with this issue however are those that speak for the rights of the cows as their reason for going vegetarian. Speak out for the cows, but use your shampoos and cosmetics that use animals for testing, relax in your leather sofas - apply those special oils extracted for various animals to your stylish leather seats in your car and your leather jacket, etc., etc.... hipocrits. As I said before... they are just animals. Some animals we use to make everyday things - and that is their purpose as far as I am concerned.
The one issue I am equally conerned about is the pollution associated with the larger farms where livestock for butchering are raised. More research into limiting this, and its full impact on the environment need to be done - without pressure from any political activists.
Finally - some "vegetarians" will still eat fish. Do people think of fish as lesser animals or are the conditions in fisheries supremely better than that of cows for the fish? Maybe its just because fisheries don't pollute in the same way... And the other animals that are caught with mass fishing exercises in the oceans, what about them? Bah - perhaps its just because popular opinion is that the meat of fish is particularly healthy. I am not saying it isn't - but how many food studies have new results over the years about how much they impact your diet and how? Once again... eat it in moderation.
I know numerous people that are vegetarians. I've been to lunches and such with these individuals - and frankly - I feel like I am being judged by each and every one of them for enjoying my ham or turkey sandwich, etc. The conversation usually begin with them either explaining the amount of fats in some meat I am eating, or the wonderful nutritional value of only eating vegetarian has... They'll explain that, and then sya something like: "Take your ham sandwich for example..." The conversation is usually unavoidable at a lunch with a vegetarian as well - as they get real specific with their meal order with the waiter - and then they feel the need to explain to everyone else in the group their reasoning. 
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Dr. A. Cula
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And how about the way they treat those poor, defenseless plants? Left all alone burried in the dirt, with no protection from th elements, with people dropping manure on them, and then, in the prime of their lives, murderers with sharp tools come along and cut their fragile little bodies to pieces. It's inhuman!
Oh, and has anyone thought to ask the cows what they want? Maybe they would like furniture, air conditioning and cable tv. Would that qualify as decent living conditions?
Seriously, though, I do agree with what people said about growth hormones and antibiotics. I think this is one case where more doesn't mean better. We could all benefit if there was less, healthier meat on the market. And when I say healthy I don't mean low-fat, but coming from a healthy animal.
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VJ
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Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:25
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quote:
And how about the way they treat those poor, defenseless plants? Left all alone burried in the dirt, with no protection from th elements, with people dropping manure on them, and then, in the prime of their lives, murderers with sharp tools come along and cut their fragile little bodies to pieces. It's inhuman! |
I've heard similar stuff many, many, many, many times.
My answer is always the same: Plants don't have brains.
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And when I say healthy I don't mean low-fat, but coming from a healthy animal. |
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Vege-food can sometimes taste like water, but usually it is quite delicious. |
Water IS delicious (at least in Finland...  )
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MRT144
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Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:25
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no cheese?!?!?! thats insanity!
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General Ludd
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Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:25
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quote:
Originally posted by aaglo
Oh, sorry, In the previous post I meant "vegans" (not people-from-vega, but people-who-eat-only-plant-products). So no dairyproducts. |
So did I.
A more acurate term for vegans would be that they eat nothing that is derived from an animal, and this typicaly expanded into everything else they do - no leather or other animal by-products. (which can be very hard to achieve in this society)
There is absolutely no health risk with a vegetarian diet, and in many ways it is alot healthier - certainly more so then the "mostly meat" diet common in western societies, anyways. The only real health risk I have heard of is with a pure vegan diet, and a lack of vitamin B12 - I do not know much about this and have been meaning learn more about it, though. Regardless, B12 is often supplimented in store-bought vegan food, like soy milk or (yech) veggieburgers.
By the way, Tofu isn't a meat substitue on it's own, in it's regular state it's quite a unique food and can be a really good adition to stir-fries. I can't imagine genetically modified soy foods being too popular among Vegans, though.
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:25
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Having known many vegetarians, I agree with Osweld that the reaction of Omnivores to vegetarians is usually more annoying than the other way around, but you do sometimes get Vegetarians who are vegeterian for ideological reasons that can be a graitng as any ideologue, when their issue comes up.
As for vegetarian cooking, its fine: I ahe had many very delicious dishes, and hell, Pasta with a good Marinara sauce is vegetarian, isn't it? as are french fries fried in vegetable oils.
But some branches of vegetarianism, such as full vegans strange, as it does force you to make various decisions to maintain a good diet, such as taking lots of supplements (why is pill popping better). And then there are the Frutarian weirdos (individuals who will only eat things such asripe fruits ready for picking): how do they ever find anyitng to eat?
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Lazarus and the Gimp
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Whale-raping abomination
Aug 2000
time: 05:25
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I can't believe no-one's piled into this yet. You're getting slow....
quote:
Originally posted by Osweld
Both ethical and poltical.
The conditions in factory farms are immensely inhumane, and aside from being torturous to the animals the conditions are also a breeding ground for diseases in meat. Factory farms are what has turn un-cooked meat into a biohazard.
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It can be, which is why ethical farming movements and the organic meat industry deserve respect.
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Factory farms also cause an immense amount of pollution, the animal waste produced from cattle greatly excedes the amount produced by humans (and I do mean greatly - I have read estimates that are as much as 130 times the amount of humans for the USA) this all goes into the enviroment untreated, and has been known to kill off all the aquatic life in places which it is dumped.
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Now you're on shaky ground. Do you think arable farming is clean in comparison? The industry that produces the vegetarian food you consume is a horrific polluter.
Careless disposal of animal waste can upset the biological balance of rivers, but that's kid's stuff compared to careless disposal of herbicides, fungicides and pesticides. Read some Carl Hiaasen and see what it's doing around the Everglades.
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The anti-biotics and growth hormones that are used so that the animals can live in such atracious conditions bring around "super germs" that are resistent to drugs. These drugs are also in animal waste and run-off, and contaminate the enviroment and possibly even our drinking water.
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Yup. Hence the need for investment into organic meat farming.
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Meat farming is immensely inefficient. 40 percent of the total world's grain harvest goes to feeding cattle, but a single hamburger is equal to ten loaves of bread, and the grazing land needed for free-range animals can bring more yield with crops. Much of the grain used to feed the cattle are imported from places where people are too poor to afford food, and are starving to death. It is estimated that if everyone adopted a vegetarian diet, our current food production would be enough to sustain a population of 10 billion people.
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Quite right. Modern arable farming is more efficient than modern meat farming when it comes to churning out calories per acre. However I challenge you to name an industry that is more devastating to the environment than moden arable farming. The only one I can think of is open-cast mining
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Worker's conditions are almost as bad as the animal's. Workers in slaughter houses have some of the most dangerous jobs in the world, succumb to all sorts of injuries. Many of them (in the USA, atleast) are illegal immigrants that are loured to the job with foreign advertisements and can be easily exploited.
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Good attitude, but are you going to do anything about it? Like protest for better wages for slaughterhouse workers, and buy meat from ethical slaughterhouses? Or was this section just a bit of a dry-****?
I'm human. I'm designed to include meat in my diet. I'll stick to my blueprint.
The best quote I've ever seen on vegetarianisn came from Foetus, an occasional poster here and at CG. He described it as "society's concession to the morally haunted".
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16-01-2003 14:19
) but I think that they're in the wrong, and if they dare say something to me, I'll be very ****ing pissed off.
Providing they still can stand that is.
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