19-02-2003 21:40									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos - The randomized technology tree. This is one of the things that made the original design for Moo3 sound so good compared to Moo2... the original Moo HAD a randomized tech tree so that every game didn't play out the same way

I've never played any version of Moo, but when I first came across the idea of having a randomized tech tree (this was about 2 weeks ago), it struck me as the best idea I've ever seen to improve replayability. The only thing I can't figure out is whether Moo3 has a randomized tech tree or not, and if it does, then how does it exactly work. Can someone enlighten me please?

	19-02-2003 23:13									#62
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^ From what Jonah Falcon's review states at UGO, it sounds as if the tech tree is partly randomized. Basically the same techs will be there in each game, but will shuffle themselves up or down the tree by a few levels. And to boot, the tech tree is "blind": you can only see a level or two ahead. The combination of the two sounds like it could work really well: you'll be able to direct your research into a certain field, but won't be able to beeline for a specific tech.

It's an encouraging review, if people are talking about the game like that in a month I'll be sure to pick it up

	20-02-2003 13:22									#63
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Some techs will also be missing and you will have to get them from your neighbours by trade, threats or espionage. The only thing I am uncomfortable with is that a couple of betas have hinted that even early basic techs (like the ability to create point defence weapons) can be unresearchable. I'd have been happier if there were techs considered so basic that they could never be randomly shuffled out.

I can remember all too well the pain of being stuck in MoO1 with no colonisable star within 3 parsecs and no ability to research a jump-4 range. By the time you could advance to see if jump-5 was available everyone else would have colonies galore. It just made for lots of reloads and in multiplayer, unhappy people.

	20-02-2003 16:06									#64
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Nit: Range 5 tech in MOO1 was accessible from turn 1, if you lucked out and got the pick. You'd have to miss both range 4 and range 5 to get stuck, though that happened on occasion. I remember one game, I was also missing range 6! Big oucher there. I still won, though.

Having to adjust your strategy to the tech availability did add a ton of replayability. You might suffer in a crucial area for a while, but over the long haul it evened out well enough. You'd never, for example, miss out on ALL the techs for a given area (say, range tech -- you might miss range 4,6,8,9,and Unlimited, but you'd still get range 5,7,10, for example). The only "crucial" techs you might miss would be singular techs offering unique special ship devices. Miss out on Repulsor Beams, too bad. Miss out on High Energy Focus, too bad. You might be able to steal them from a rival, though.


- Sirian

	21-02-2003 02:04									#65
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HEF was by itself in a group so you couldn't miss it

One big advantages of the Moo series over the Civ/Smac for me was the time to play a game.

I can finish a Moo game on a decent sized universe in an evening, Moo2 huge in 2 sessions. Civ3 took at least a week.

Almost all that difference was in moving settlers/formers around.

	21-02-2003 02:51									#66
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Gotta tell you this here.. Moo3 is going to take huge chunks of time to play. 10-15 hours to learn the basics.. 30-40 hours and not one game completed yet.. whew.. big thumbs up from me, but not for everyone.

	21-02-2003 04:37									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Seldon Let's not forget that this contest to choose the beta testers magically pulled twenty-five of the stoutest supporters and vocal proponents for the games as exhibited by their posting on the IG forums. Hopefully, they were chosen for their objectivity but I'm a little nervous on that score. Or maybe I'm just a paranoid sore loser who's bitter in defeat.

iirc CK, Sencho, Xentax, and James Lowe (and possibly some of the others) weren't winners of that contest, but rather were selected directly by the devs/IG for beta testing... they were "magically pulled" from the audience, but it wasn't a rigged contest or anything like that.

	21-02-2003 15:30									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Sirian Nit: Range 5 tech in MOO1 was accessible from turn 1, if you lucked out and got the pick. You'd have to miss both range 4 and range 5 to get stuck, though that happened on occasion. I remember one game, I was also missing range 6! Big oucher there. I still won, though. Having to adjust your strategy to the tech availability did add a ton of replayability. You might suffer in a crucial area for a while, but over the long haul it evened out well enough. You'd never, for example, miss out on ALL the techs for a given area (say, range tech -- you might miss range 4,6,8,9,and Unlimited, but you'd still get range 5,7,10, for example). The only "crucial" techs you might miss would be singular techs offering unique special ship devices. Miss out on Repulsor Beams, too bad. Miss out on High Energy Focus, too bad. You might be able to steal them from a rival, though. - Sirian

the official moo strategy guide state thar very player limited research list must include at least:

one planetary shield technology
one robotic factory control technology
one missile either a missile, rocket or torpedo tech
either hydrogen(range 4) or deuterium(range 5) tech

Or all the game I play I found this to be true of the first moo. They knew how to write strategy back then.

	21-02-2003 17:51									#69
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They knew how to write strategy guides too.

/glares at prima.

	21-02-2003 20:18									#70
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You're still pretty much screwed if you have no planets you can reach before you research range 5. Other players can be on their fourth colony by the time you've built your first range 5 ship.

	21-02-2003 21:55									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Grumbold You're still pretty much screwed if you have no planets you can reach before you research range 5. Other players can be on their fourth colony by the time you've built your first range 5 ship.

Its that whole "luck" thing that I keep hearing whispered about. Sounds like luck may be an even more overwhelming force in MOO3 than it was in MOO1.



Since I don't play a lot of MP, just means some good restarts now and again.

-P

	22-02-2003 12:51									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Daveybaby They knew how to write strategy guides too. /glares at prima.

That is what I mean Strategy Guides.