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techumseh
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of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:25
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This discussion is clearly headed nowhere. If people are serious about a CONTEST, then some rules are going to be needed. The idea that anybody can submit anything is nice, but it's not a real contest.
To my mind, a fair contest requires a level playing field. That means everyone starts from scratch, the theme is tight enough that comparison is meaningful, rules are spelled out in advance and are followed, and that judging is free from bias or the appearance of bias.
To accomplish this, an untried theme is best, so it's unlikely that someone has something half finished on their hard drive ready to submit. Rules need to be followed, unlike the last contest where two of the entries violated the contest rules, and should have been disqualified.
The timelines originally established should be followed, within reason. If someone needs and extra week, that's one thing, but time frames shouldn't repeatedly be extended.
If people want objective judging, then anonimity MUST be assured. In the last contest, I withdrew from participating in the judging when the identity of contestants was revealed to me. Those who think it doesn't matter are just kidding themselves.
Perhaps those who want a WWII scenario could suggest a theme that will be specific and new, if not unique. If there is such a suggestion, then maybe we could test the community on whether they want WWII or an Asian/industrial or some other theme.
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Michael Daumen
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Research Triangle
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
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Here are some ground rules for a potential scenario contest involving alternate history.
1. The designer shall provide a short description of the departure point from Earth's history. Anything from the specific - "Union troops fail to discover Confederate plans prior to the battle of Anteitam" - to the general - "the Axis wins the Second World War" - to the far out - "Plato never wrote the Republic." The designer does not have to defend his choice of departure point or provide a logical/scientific basis for one. An unlikely or implausible departure point shall not affect the scenario's final score.
2. The designer shall state the length of time elapsed between the departure point and the start of the scenario, if any. For example, a scenario set in 2003 after the invasion of Japan by the Allies has a elapsed time of 58 years. A scenario about Lopez' invasion of Cuba in the 1850's after a more-harshly-worded Ostend Manifesto has an elapsed time of "immediate." All scenarios shall not start later than 2003 (alternate future?). Designers may wish to expound on the changes that have arisen during the elapsed time, but this is not required (NB: it is NEVER necessary to explain the presence of dirigibles in ANY alternate history; their existence is assumed).
3. The designer is free to use any map depicting a portion or all of the Earth. Changes to allow for the effects of the departure point - terrain representing asteroid-devastated areas, a map of Pangaea for a time-travel accident, Central America with a Nicaraguan canal - are all permissible. The designer shall include a base (unchanged) map in the zip file.
4. Unusual technology is permitted as a departure point for a scenario. A Roman empire with gunpowder, Ming Dynasty alchemy, and Merlin as the leader of the Britons are all acceptable.
5. All civilizations meant for play must represented by a human nation. No alien invasion scenarios will be considered. Natural forces (dinosaurs, hurricanes, et al.) can be simulated by the use of not-for-play nations.
6. Solo play, PBEM, alternate starts, bat files are all permissible [?]
7. FW vs MGE [?]
Finally, such a contest could use someone uninvolved (ie not designing or judging) who can relay specific questions entrants have to the judges, making sure that their ideas are OK before too much time is spent. If not, I would err on the side of including any wierd idea the Civ2 community comes up with.
Last edited by Michael Daumen on 28-01-2003 at 23:13
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Boco
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who was once King for a week.
Jan 2001
time: 00:25
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In one regard you are right, Tech. Not many posts seriously (I think?) advocate submitting scenarios started months ago. As for designer anonymity, I can't tell.
However, I was referring to the many posts shooting down the idea of narrowing the contest to a single geographic area (such as Africa) and timeframe (e.g. Colonial period) to make life easier for the judges. Personally, I'd think for a given era and area, alternate and real history could easily mix (e.g. Turtledove history and WWI). Most posters think that given judging criteria about playability, 'accuracy', art, and thoroughness, "apples" and "spaceships" can be compared. I think that asks judge(s) to show a whole lotta objectivity that is difficult to maintain.
I also have serious doubts as to whether a 1 on 1 duel could be fairly compared to a SP scenario, but you and others have more experience about that.
I'd vote for a panel as well.
Btw, how many entrants were there in the SDC about Africa?
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Mercator
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Sorekara no Nanimo
Jan 1970
time: 06:25
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I don't think anyone wants to see half-finished scenarios participate, but just some more freedom on the author's part, which will hopefully mean more entries.
I think, now, most designers never bother participating or quit in the process, because the strict theme just isn't their thing (not to spend as much time on as you'd need to do to get a historicall accurate setting anyway, playing it is another thing).
There has never been a lack of enthusiasm, but let's face it, 3 or 4 entries is hardly a contest (no offense).
And with 1 or 2 judges the subjectivity claim (regarding participants' anonymity) barely holds, because the whole thing will probably be biased towards their own personal tastes anyway. So a panel, or organised open "people's vote" would be much better, IMHO, in which case the anonymity isn't necessary either (as long as the voting is regulated enough to prevent everyone playing Mr. Cool Dude's scenario, and no-one playing Mr. Newbie's scenario).
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ravagon
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Australia
Sep 1999
time: 13:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Mercator
And with 1 or 2 judges the subjectivity claim (regarding participants' anonymity) barely holds, because the whole thing will probably be biased towards their own personal tastes anyway. So a panel, or organised open "people's vote" would be much better, IMHO, in which case the anonymity isn't necessary either (as long as the voting is regulated enough to prevent everyone playing Mr. Cool Dude's scenario, and no-one playing Mr. Newbie's scenario). |
Multiple judges will also take some of the pressure off, as a single individual could be rather hard-pressed to come up with the research required for the accuracy of a multitude of history-based scenarios (Historical accuracy being, IMO, a rather flawed judging criterion anyway). Such would involve, of course, much longer delays in coming to a conclusion...
Q: Would the AH category being bandied about lately include "sci-fi" AH (a la Turtledove's Worldwar series - an idea I've been playing with for a while)?
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27-01-2003 22:30
)
]
) can get help from the people at these boards, as long as they understand that any info can be stolen, but that is the risk you take. I think that the competitor's for a vote on a theme are currently:
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