20-01-2003 23:25									#31
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quote: Why care about liberties if happy?

I can not believe you said that. Does that mean you will condone, say, mind controlling anyone? hah. They are happy, no? Why care about civil liberties then... and that 'very good' is on Apolyton standards not too high (Lemmington doesn't count). Not to mention that maybe you are tricking your people to believing they have civil rights.

	21-01-2003 00:02									#32
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I've long claimed that all UN surveyors cannot be trusted, since they might fall under the influence of AkiZeta's mind probes.

	21-01-2003 01:16									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue RJ: Begin Transmission Why the untruth? We care only about Akriria. We have no business in Redfern. Care about happiness of Akirians only. Redfern has not attacked us. We do not wish to attack Redfern. End Transmission

We do not believe it to be the work of any AIs involved with Akira, they were AIs created within the Federation. We believe you do not wish to attack us.

	21-01-2003 02:06									#34
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Azazel:

quote: Originally posted by Azazel You've be known to say that "no complete happiness can exist with imperfect humans". I know that, you know that. give it up, evildoer.

Begin Transmission
Misquote. No complete happiness can exist with imperfect humans ruling.
End Transmission

Jack:

quote: if killing one would make a million happy you would do it. What if killing that person is in anther country, or it is just more then one person??

Begin Transmission
More than one person. Depends. Most likely not. Difference between us. I do not hold life sacred. Life is Life. It is a collection of experiences. If killing makes everyone happier (example=Hitler from your Earthian history) then we would do it. We do not slaughter innocents. We do nothing that would appaul citizens. As that would mean less happiness. We support the path of most happiness. Example of killing many increasing happiness? Cannot find one. Therefore do not. Killing usually results in less happiness. Killing appauls humans. Therefore do not do. Only in very extremes. Use examples. We have given our hypothetical view. If it increases happiness, it is good. If you can find an example of that. We will discuss. Almost always. Killing = bad. Violence is always bad.
End Transmission

Kass:

quote: I can not believe you said that. Does that mean you will condone, say, mind controlling anyone? hah. They are happy, no? Why care about civil liberties then... and that 'very good' is on Apolyton standards not too high (Lemmington doesn't count). Not to mention that maybe you are tricking your people to believing they have civil rights.

Begin Transmission
No. Mind Control does not increase happiness. At least not as we have found it. Liberty important only as path to happiness. Liberty helps create happiness. Liberty is only good towards other goals however. Liberty is not goal in itself. People are free to do as they wish. So long as they do not stop the happiness of others. Very good is very good. What others have is irrelevant. As FAQ says. Subjective tests. Depend on what you are aiming for. We aim for happiness. We are 3rd happiest out of 128. therefore we are doing quite well. People are happy. Goal is being achieved.
End Transmission

	21-01-2003 02:08									#35
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Eternal Cold reverses its earlier decision not to join this alliance. The reckless abandon with which neighboring states feel that they have a right to interfere with the internal activities of other nations is simply appalling. Any internal change that they do not understand or do not agree with is immediately and irrevocably denounced as wrong. Their insistence on making the Apolyton Region a homogenous population of states in their own image cannot and will not remain opposed.

Akiria and the Sovietskii Soyuz have the full military backing of Eternal Cold

Last edited by ColdWizard on 21-01-2003 at 02:13

	21-01-2003 02:12									#36
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quote: No complete happiness can exist with imperfect humans ruling.

Do you not understand? Soon AkiZeta will claim to desire the happiness of, say, Greater Finland's people. And what do you know, suddenly I, 'the imperfect human', have disappeared 'without violence' and AkiZeta controls my country and it's people too. AkiZeta is a clear and present threat. If we allow rogue AIs to have one country, they'll go for another, and then another, and the scenarios that Terminator 2 or The Matrix have suggested are nigh.

	21-01-2003 02:19									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia Do you not understand? Soon AkiZeta will claim to desire the happiness of, say, Greater Finland's people. And what do you know, suddenly I, 'the imperfect human', have disappeared 'without violence' and AkiZeta controls my country and it's people too. AkiZeta is a clear and present threat. If we allow rogue AIs to have one country, they'll go for another, and then another, and the scenarios that Terminator 2 or The Matrix have suggested are nigh.

Begin Transmission
No. Akizeta cares only about Akirian happiness. Only cares about other states when they interfere with Akirian happiness. Leave us in peace. We will do likewise. We care not for warmongering. Indeed we wish to live in peace. Peace breeds happiness.
End Transmission

quote: Eternal Cold reverses its earlier decision not to join this alliance. The reckless abandon with which neighboring states feel that they have a right to interfere with the internal activities of other nations is simply appalling. Any internal change that they do not understand or do not agree with is immediately and irrevocably denounced as wrong. Their insistence on making the Apolyton Region a homogenous population of states in their own image cannot and will not remain opposed. Akiria and the Sovietskii Soyuz have the full military backing of Eternal Cold

Begin Transmission
Akiria commends and agrees with the view of Eternal Cold. Thank you for the support.
End Transmission

	21-01-2003 02:29									#38
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quote: No. Akizeta cares only about Akirian happiness. Only cares about other states when they interfere with Akirian happiness. Leave us in peace. We will do likewise. We care not for warmongering. Indeed we wish to live in peace. Peace breeds happiness.

And how does Akizeta define the situation where "other states interfere with Akirian happiness"?

"Ubinia is located over a uranium deposit - uranium deposit needed for Akirian happiness - Ubinian existence interferes with Akirian happiness"?

	21-01-2003 02:35									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia And how does Akizeta define the situation where "other states interfere with Akirian happiness"? "Ubinia is located over a uranium deposit - uranium deposit needed for Akirian happiness - Ubinian existence interferes with Akirian happiness"?

Begin Transmission
No. Akiria respects national boundaries. Interference = trying to stop Akizeta by force. Interference = invasion. Interference = meddling in Akirian national issues.
End Transmission
OOC: Mill wrote in "Utilitarianism" about the limit of interference IIRC. Can't remember it off hand. But your example doesn't count as interference IMHO. /OOC

	21-01-2003 02:49									#40
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Repeating myself from the other thread, what stops AkiZeta from changing this code of operation? The cold patterns of logic might deem conquest or war the only possibly alternative to further Akirian 'happiness'. Will the AI then work by compassion and benevolence, or by logic? How can a machine even decide when a human being is happy or not?

OOC: A witty quote proves nothing -- Voltaire Haven't read Mill myself. I don't want this to get into semantics. /OOC

	21-01-2003 02:53									#41
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To: Akizeta

The Kingdom of Wine would like to thank you for lettind Deirdre stay here in helping the Kingdom recovering our beautiful forests.

Apparently, the "virus" was not a real birus, but the disease was caused by the radiation of an Uranium deposit, of which apparently our forests are very rich of.

All we needed to do was to lock down the deposits, and arrest and rehabilitate the abusers which were mining it, and magically the disease disappeared as fast as it appeared.

Also Deirdre suggested us to make the flying cat a protected spieces, and we decided to follow her suggestions.

Now she is heading back to Akiria with the other scientist you sent to help us out in this moment of need.

Even if we do not trust very much dictatorships we are happy to see that you are such a benevolent dictator, and we hope we can get better relationship in future, and hopefully next time you'll be an elected leader.

Saluti
King Giovanni

	21-01-2003 17:16									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Giovanni Wine To: Akizeta The Kingdom of Wine would like to thank you for lettind Deirdre stay here in helping the Kingdom recovering our beautiful forests. Apparently, the "virus" was not a real birus, but the disease was caused by the radiation of an Uranium deposit, of which apparently our forests are very rich of. All we needed to do was to lock down the deposits, and arrest and rehabilitate the abusers which were mining it, and magically the disease disappeared as fast as it appeared. Also Deirdre suggested us to make the flying cat a protected spieces, and we decided to follow her suggestions. Now she is heading back to Akiria with the other scientist you sent to help us out in this moment of need. Even if we do not trust very much dictatorships we are happy to see that you are such a benevolent dictator, and we hope we can get better relationship in future, and hopefully next time you'll be an elected leader. Saluti King Giovanni

From Drogue:
Akizeta has appointed me as foreign advisor, until we are able to hold elections (in the very near future ). I am very glad to see that you're mining problem has ceased, and that you're forest is once again well. Akiria congratulates you on the decision to make the flying cat a protected species. May I propose a trade? We send you 10,000 new seedlings of our great pine, oak, and ask trees, to help reseed your forest, and you send us 1000 flying cats (or an appropriate number, if this is not), to help the diversity of our woodlands and fields. I shall post a map of Akiria soon, to show you where we plan on introducing the flying cat.

	21-01-2003 23:46									#43
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Drogue, is that really you?

	21-01-2003 23:57									#44
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Even if he would be, he might be 'happy' like the rest of Akirians... *coughbrainwashedcough*

	22-01-2003 01:44									#45
	Got spare money?

Yes, it is me. I am happy. I am happy because I have a new beach house, on the side of Lake Gracie (named after my wonderful wife). However, I still have my problems, as we all do. I have yet to see brainwashing taken place, and I personally am against it. I believe people should have the ability to be happy, thus they get free education, and safeguards so that they can enjoy themselves, knowing if they get hurt, they will be treated for free. I do not believe happiness should be forced upon anyone. However if people wanted a 'happy-chip', why should I stop them? If I eat chocolate, it released seratonin, and I become more happy. Why is a chip any less different? I do not wish to force it upon others, and I am sure that Akizeta does not, however if people wish to, we will not make it illegal.

	22-01-2003 02:43									#46
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LOL.. appears like AKiria became a happy Anarchist Dictatorship

IC:
The King is glad to see you Drogue.
We would accept the trade deal, although befoe doing it we must be sure Akiria is a good enviroment for Flying cats
- Do you have many bats (flying cat favourite food)
- Do you have some tree dogs (flying cat worst enemy.. needed to keep the cat population under control)
- Also the flying cat not only needs forest, but also needs mountains, as there is where they grow their kitties, and where they take off to go hunting in the forest.

If you have all of this we will be willing to give you the 1'000 flying cats you requested, and will await your supplies of seeds, as that will help us greatly.

Saluti
King Giovanni

	22-01-2003 15:30									#47
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We need some flying cats as well. my people are hungry.