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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:25
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you can't contract out of human rights legislation. If they would have said that specific ethnic minorities were excluded nobody would say that this was ok just because it was in their rules.
Entertainment often "discriminates", but in ways that should not violate legislation. Whenever they cast characters, producers often set limits/parameters regarding age, race , sex and physical diabilities as it is necessary to play the role they have envisioned. You could consider the American Idol competition to be one big casting call for a role, that of an 18-24 year old singer. Could women complain if the competition were limited to men or vice versa?
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:25
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You folks missed my point
You cannot set something up to discriminate and then say its ok because the rules say its ok. If I set up an apartment building and one of the rules is "no ( insert ethnic minority here)" I would get slammed. The RULES make no difference in justifying the action.
The second paragraph of my previous post went on to say that the entertainment industry seems almost immune from this since they are regularly searching for people of certain characteristics ( race/sex/age) which would be discrimination if applied in more regular occupations. Since Miss Black America is essentially auditiong/competing for a role as a black female spokesperson, this passes muster.
In Canada they used to refer to these as Bona fide Occupational qualifications or requirement. It seems pretty obvious that the age, sex and visible features of a character could be part of those rerquirements in entertainment.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Flubber, then please explain the age limitations given in the Miss America Pageant. |
What are they and have they ever been challenged??
They would justify it as seeking/casting a young spokeperson I guess. I am not up on the latest decisions but it seemed to me that the entertainment industry has been given pretty wide latitude to cast people as they see fit
I did see one instance where a human rights commission trashed ethnic/age/ sex requirements in entertainment. In Nova Scotia there is a historical fort where each summer they do recreations of life in the 1700s or 1800s. They had a policy of only hiring white men for the role of soldiers since the British regiment was all white and all male. This was challenged successful. The commission ruled that it was not a necessary requirement to have an all white group. They talked about the fact that historical accuracy would have likely required men much older than college aged, generally filthy and unshaven. Hiring mostly clean shaven high-schoolers and college kids had already departed from the visual accuracy of the presentation. Since then I believe thay have had a variety of ethnic minorities and women playing the role of soldiers.
Are people aware of other times when an entertainment group has been suceessfully challenged for favoring one age/ sex/ ethicity over another ??
Whats interesting is that a show like American Idol could probably avoid the whole fuss if they never stated an age requirement to begin with. They could have some junior flunkies screen the contestants early. Since part of the contest is to have a certain "look" I presume, this guy would likely get weeded out then.
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DRoseDARs
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"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Elitism is very unbecoming.  |
Ok, I've read what everyone else said, now I respond.
I wasn't poo-pooing Community Colleges as-such. Hell, I've been attending Truckee Meadows Community College for the past 4 years (this spring makes full 4 years)! I've gotten my Associates of Art degree from the credits I got over the first two-and-a-half years and now I'm working on the core classes for an Architectural transfer degree, looking to transfer within two years to U. of Nevada, Las Vegas.
I've enjoyed my 4 years at TMCC. The problem is that CCs typically don't offer higher-level degrees, as mentioned by others. Further, it's been my experiance that some teachers couldn't hack it (for whatever reasons) as university nor full-level college professors, so they work at less-prestigous CCs; some are better suited as high school teachers; some seek better, more informal teaching enviroments/smaller classes and more individual contact with students; some seek to provide quality education to the not-able-to-afford-even-a-semester-at-the-more-pricey-places-that-teach-the-same-sh*t-but-with-more-pomp-and-circumstance people like me. All of those points are valid, so again I'm not poo-pooing CCs.
Back on-topic, I know age-discrimination in the workplace is illegal for the most part, but can anyone cite actual laws/legislation forcing private contests/competitions to adhere to those same anti-age-discrimination laws? I mean really, could my 89 year old grandmother file a similar lawsuit to enter a children's beauty pagent?
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:25
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I did a cursory look at human rights legislation in Canada and "age" is a grounds for complaint. Age is usally defined in terms such that persons under 18/19/20 and over 65 have lesser right to complain. This is obviously so that drinking, voting and retirement laws and measures would not be subject to challenge.
What was interesting was that while "age " seemed to appear in provisions prohibiting discrimination with regards to employment and providing accomodations, it was sometimes absent in provisions regarding providing "services or amenities" to the public, depending on the province. This is the provision that would prevent a shop owner for example from barring an ethnic minority form the store. The idea is that services and amenities normally provided to the public cannot be denied someone due to discrimination on one of the listed grounds.
The question with these competitions -- like American Idol is whether they would be classified as an employment opportunity or the provision of a service or amenity. I think the latter classification might fit except that the legislation says services provided generally to the public . . . If a service is targetted at an age group, perhaps that is sufficient right there
My quick look found no real good caselaw on this that jumper out ( but I did not look long)-- It seems that most " age " cases are in employment when older employees are turfed. If you could claim age discrimination, imagine the fertile field out there for litigation
Seniors discounts-- ( some Human rights codes specifically state these are ok)
an over 30 nightclub-- an under 30 nightclub
any number of social clubs
all sorts of pageants
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MosesPresley
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Judging from these arguments, then it must be OK for Augusta to allow only men.
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20-01-2003 21:25
ACK!
) made her claim to fame by desegregating the private Jonathan Club here in Los Angeles. She did it by successfully arguing that the Jonathan Club was more than just a social club. Many governmental and business deals were worked out behind its oak doors, and so excluding women from the club had the effect of not permitting them to practice their profession based upon their gender.
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