21-01-2003 03:05									#31
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara TR was pouning his fists in Congress for joining the war in Europe in 1914. TR wanted us to get in on the colonial grab when Germany's empire was divied up. If he were Prez., we would have gone to war.

He was able to do this because he wasn't Prez. If he were Prez I think he would have been more inclined towards popular opinion

	21-01-2003 04:05									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Saras, it probably would have happend if Bismarck had retained his position. It was the Kaiser's foolishness that sparked the France-England alliance in the first place. Had Germany not been such a bully towards France in Morocco, and had the Kaiser not blatantly tried to challenge British naval power, the alliance could have happened.

It wasn't an Anglo-French alliance that sparked British entry into WWI, it was the violation of Belgian neutrality. The British had a treaty with Belgium since 1830.

In 1905 the Germans did not have the large numbers of machine guns in their infantry companies that they did in 1914. Consequently the battles might not have been the horrendous slaughters that they were in 1914. The Germans also did not have so much heavy artillery (105mm and 155mm), and I believe that they had none of the super-heavy artillery (>300mm) at that time, so getting through Belgium might have been much more difficult than in 1914. In fact some believe that it was not a coincidence that the war began within a few months of Germany receiving their 420mm mobile guns. Further more the Austro-Hungarian arm was way behind in modernization, so they would not have been as much help on the southern part of the eastern front.

Would this early WWI have involved the balkans? Would italy have been involved?

	21-01-2003 04:46									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove It wasn't an Anglo-French alliance that sparked British entry into WWI, it was the violation of Belgian neutrality. The British had a treaty with Belgium since 1830.

If Germany had been successful in procuring an alliance with Britain, however, this might not have been the case. Germany might even have been able to use Britain to convice Belgium to give them a free pass through their country into France. For a shot at stealing France's colonies in Asia and Africa away, I can conceive of the British taking such a course.

	21-01-2003 23:23									#34
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quote: Would italy have been involved?

Most likely yes, as the Italians wanted to have control of the the cities of Trieste, Trento and Fiume (now called Rijeka in Croatia), and many other areas in both Istria and Dalmatia.

Saluti

	21-01-2003 23:47									#35
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A 1905 war would have gone very differently, i think:

First, I agree with the notion that Russia was in no position to fight a war with germany, given its internal situation and the fact that significant forces were off in Manchuria. Yes, the Germans would have had less modern equipment, but the same holds true for the French. Though germany's greater naval inferiority (tiny navy, no Kiel Canal) would have made the German very itchy about Britian entering the war. Still, i think the Germans would have been able to defeat the French and any small forces the British might have thrown their way. The Balkan situation would have been very interesting: a believe a pro-Austrian king ruled Serbia at the time, so the Balkans might have been very quite, and the Italians might have stuck with the Dual Allience at the time, given they were much weaker than in 1905. As for the Ottomans, they probalby would have stayed out of the war all together_ remember that the Young Turks had yet to take power, and the old Sultan and his court would have been very cautious.

	22-01-2003 00:00									#36
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In your scenario GePap, Does the US get involved in the war?

	25-01-2003 17:43									#37
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Very good analisys, GePap.
Russia most probably would try to avoid a major war (with Germany) just after a major defeat (with Japan). There is still posible that some officers see in that an oportunity to regain the lost prestige. In WWI Germany almost won the war in 1914. Changing the Shlieffen (sp?) plan and much faster than anticipated mobilisation of Russian army (witch determinded the moving of some troops from France) were the reasons of failure. With the railroad of 1905 and much of the troops in Manciuria, Russia wouldn't surprise Germany like it did in WWI.
Ottoman Empire also would aviod war as all the Balkan states/nation (Greece, Serbia, Muntenegro, Bulgaria - autonomous and maybe Romania) were itchy to fight with the turks (and take their land in Europe).

Most probably, IMO, a war in 1905 between Germany and France & Russia had much less chances to became a world war. Expecially if Germany succed to take Paris.