23-01-2003 04:52									#31
	Tired of ads?

Jane Fonda looks pretty good naked...


But she is a worthless piece of fecal matter.

P.S.: I recieved that E-Mail about two years ago. It's STILL going around?

	23-01-2003 05:00									#32
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Of course, how many old timers remember the protests aboard the US aircraft carriers when the Navy decided to cancel Jane Fonda's visit. They were forced to bring her anyway, despite the fact that she had been to Hanoi.

A great many men who have been on a ship at sea for six months without any female companionship would love to see a girl, any girl, traitor or not.

	23-01-2003 05:08									#33
	Get a bigger avatar today!

It's in the history books for Gods sake. Then she is estranged from her wacko husband and it suddenly hits the internet. Add to that loathsome rigthwing moralising and the destruction of her charactor is a foregone conclusion. I wonder how much money was spent on spreding this garbarge.

	23-01-2003 05:50									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Yes, that was wrong, but it's not like our guys were so nice to captured Vietnamese either. Remember both MtG's and Chris62's reaction to my thread on the Winter Soldier's investigations? They catagorically refused to believe that American soldiers participated in attrocities (with the exception of Song Mai, aka, Mai Li, and then they still try and "justify" it). I'm not justifying what she said, but there is often a refusal to believe that your heroes engage in such things.

Whoa, there, boy.

What I said (and I thought it was GP, not the Yank, but he was pretty close to the same general position as mine) is that I don't believe the unsupported after-the-fact allegations by people who were self-claimed participants or witnesses, but took no action, made no reports, and made no effort to record or document in detail what allegedly happened at the time or through the proper channels for such reports.

Some guy standing up years after the fact, with no evidence, saying: "I'm Billy-Bob and I was in the 5417th Babykiller Battalion stationed in Krap Hol, Laos, and we shot a bunch of gooks for fun on some day, but I can't really remember when, but a bunch of us was there, and we never reported it, but it happened, really, and now I'm a reformed babykiller" just doesn't cut it with me.

That's not at all a categorical denial that nothing ever happened anywhere outside My Lai. It's a categorical denial that unsupported, unsubstantiated after-the-fact claims, following a deliberate choice to say nothing and report nothing at the time (if there was in fact anything to report) does not create the "fact" of an atrocity or murder out of thin air.

	23-01-2003 05:55									#35
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Kramerman No! I think she is an ignorant misinformed trecherous bastard!

It was the was your post was worded that threw me.
Still, where the idea of "take a hit off your tail pipe" came from, I'm not sure.

	23-01-2003 05:57									#36
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara A lot of folks forget, many, many US servicemen and women were opposed to the war in Vietnam as well, and that when they got home, they formed the largest section of tha anti-war movement.

They didn't, however, make propaganda broadcasts for the enemy, etc. I don't support the war in Vietnam, and never did (despite having quite a few Vietnamese acquaintances over the years, all ex-boat people, all with an emphatic antipathy to the commie regime. My brother died as a result of the Vietnam war. I never supported the damn thing, but what Fonda did went way over the line of legitimate protest and opposition (and protected free speech).

Her being lumped in with anti-war protestors, particularly the VVAW and other vets who opposed the war, is an insult to all of them.

She should have had her citizenship revoked and been told she was welcome to remain in North Vietnam for the rest of her days.

	23-01-2003 06:00									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

But Che,




deleted for lack of caring

Last edited by SlowwHand on 23-01-2003 at 06:17

	23-01-2003 06:54									#38
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: P.S.: I recieved that E-Mail about two years ago. It's STILL going around?

I guess so. I just got it this afternoon. I assume it started sometime in 1999, as that is when barbra walters hosted the "100 years of Great Women" thingie refered to in the email. Its kinda amazing that it is stilll circulating after almost 4 years.

	23-01-2003 07:30									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin A great many men who have been on a ship at sea for six months without any female companionship would love to see a girl, any girl, traitor or not.

I don't think so.
US Navy 1962 to 1965

	23-01-2003 08:59									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc It's in the history books for Gods sake. Then she is estranged from her wacko husband and it suddenly hits the internet. Add to that loathsome rigthwing moralising and the destruction of her charactor is a foregone conclusion. I wonder how much money was spent on spreding this garbarge.

Ultra-leftist political views? Check.
Visceral hatred of America? Check.
Love of Communist regimes regardless of human-rights failings? Check.
Slightly faulty syntax? Check.

I think we have found a Eurocom.

	23-01-2003 11:33									#41
	Tired of ads?

Hey I like Jane Fonda. I think she saved many american lives by forcing the public to realize the U.S. were the bad guys in the war. She is a true patriot.

	23-01-2003 12:00									#44
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Should the US have been in Vietnam? If it shouldn't have, Jane is right in opposing the war. Why should US people get killed in the jungles of a faraway land just to protect the interests of the elite few?

	23-01-2003 12:04									#45
	Inflate your Upload Space

The Vietnam War was morally wrong, and the US was one of the aggressors/instigators, not to mention we were supporting a terrible dictatorship (South Vietnam). That being the case, how would it be any more justified to spout propaganda in favor of the US or South Vietnam than in favor of North Vietnam?

Both sides were extremely immoral, and it's wrong to say either of them were good, but I suppose on balance it's good that the US "lost" (not militarily), since it was a war that we prolonged by our propping up of a dictatorship.

	23-01-2003 12:18									#46
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Should the US have been in Vietnam? If it shouldn't have, Jane is right in opposing the war. Why should US people get killed in the jungles of a faraway land just to protect the interests of the elite few?

Its not wrong that she, or anyone apposed the war. Its wrong how she apposed it. She shoulda just stayed home, and been very vocal about stuff at home in non-violent, non-disruptive peace marches and protests and let the system do its work. But going over there, and saying and doing the things she said and did are nearly treasonous acts, in my opinion.

She did nothing but excite a few of the hardcore antiwar hippies, and upset most everyone else. Its not about her being right or wrong in opposing the war, its how she went about opposing it.

	23-01-2003 12:23									#47
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

She lent strength to the convictions in the North that they could win if they kept it up. She lent comfort to the enemy. She is a traitor.

	23-01-2003 12:31									#48
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Anybody know where you can get those Hanoi Jane urinal stickers? Those are great. You always see them in the VFW's and such.

	23-01-2003 12:55									#49
	Increase Your PM Length

You can order one from here:
Hanoi Jane Urinal Sticker

I particularly like the Calvin taking a piss on her name... gah... that must really suck to be so associated with piss...

	23-01-2003 13:02									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

hmm.. i thought this was interesting. Here are some direct quotes from some of Jane's propaganda radio messages she did while in North Vietnam:

quote: "I'm very honored to be a guest in your country, and I loudly condemn the crimes that have been committed by the U.S. Government in the name of the American people against your country. A growing number of people in the United States not only demand an end to the war, an end to the bombing, a withdrawal of all U.S. troops, and an end to the support of the Thieu clique, but we identify with the struggle of your people. We have understood that we have a common enemy: U.S. imperialism." "I want to publicly accuse Nixon of being a new-type Hitler whose crimes are being unveiled. I want to publicly charge that while waging the war of aggression in Vietnam he has betrayed everything the American people have at heart. The tragedy is for the United States and not for the Vietnamese people, because the Vietnamese people will soon regain their independence and freedom . . ." "To the U.S. servicemen who are stationed on the aircraft carriers in the Gulf of Tonkin, those of you who load the bombs on the planes should know that those weapons are illegal. And the use of those bombs or condoning the use of those bombs, makes one a war criminal." "I'm not a pacifist. I understand why the Vietnamese are fighting . . . against a white man's racist aggression. We know what U.S. imperialism has done to our country so we know what lies in store for any third world country that could have the misfortune of falling into the hands of a country such as the United States and becoming a colony . . . You know that when Nixon says the war is winding down, that he's lying."

	23-01-2003 13:06									#51
	Put an end to popups!

Some more interesting quotes on the subject, by various people:

quote: Lt. Cmdr. John McCain said, "These people, Ramsey Clark, Tom Hayden, and Jane Fonda, were on the side of the North Vietnamese. I think she only saw eight selected prisoners. I was beaten unmercifully for refusing to meet with the visitors." Maj. Harold Kushner said, "I think the purposes of Fonda and Clark were to hurt the United States, to radicalize our young people, and to undermine our authority." Col. Alan Brunstrom said, "We felt that any Westerners who showed up in Hanoi were on the other side. They gave aid and comfort to the enemy, and as far as I'm concerned, they were traitors."

EDIT: these appear legit, but cant be certain.

	23-01-2003 13:17									#52
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I really dislike it when people use the name Hitler too loosely to describe leaders. Far too loosely for my tastes. Hitler was one of a kind. There have been leaders who have killed more, but no one was quite like him.

I wanted to see that mini series they made about him, but I think protests are shutting that down. . Whatever happened to free speech.

Speaking of free speech, I have no problem with her saying the war was wrong. Because it was in many ways. In fact I support anti-war protests. What really irked me was her calling U.S. servicemen and officers liars. Sure it is free speech, but isn't that defamation of character or something like that?

I would have given my life savings to see her go through what they went through. Just to prove to her how humanely they were treated.

	23-01-2003 13:36									#53
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Jane Fonda compared Nixon to Hitler? That's a bit of a stretch, IMHO.

	23-01-2003 13:56									#54
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither She lent strength to the convictions in the North that they could win if they kept it up. She lent comfort to the enemy. She is a traitor.

Traitor of what? Did the US people have a reason to be there? For crying out loud, they drafted kids to be cannon fodders. This war was hugely unpopular, so how could she be a traitor of the US people?

	23-01-2003 14:18									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Traitor to her country. Duh.

You may not agree with your nation, but it is not up to you to help its enemies, unless you want to be strung up. Lucky her.

	23-01-2003 14:24									#56
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Anyone have the quotes where she called US soldiers liars?

	23-01-2003 14:46									#57
	Support Apolyton

Jane Fonda... what a piece of work I must say.. She must be taken to the back of sauna. Bullet in the neck.

	23-01-2003 14:52									#58
	Inflate your Upload Space

I have no understanding to people who treat their own soldier like kaka, even more so when they're held prisoners and are suffering. Does not show any humanity. Makes you think what side she was on? It's different thing to oppose war, and gloryfying the enemy and insulting own troops, who are humans too, individuals.
Why doesn't she live in Vietnam, all her buddies are there?
And most of all WHY did she even go to that country if they had POWs?? It's like she thinks they deserved to get caught and tortured. What a *****.

	23-01-2003 14:57									#59
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Well Miss Jane Fonda is working out, Getting everybody thin, But I remember her bending over, For Mister Ho Chi Minh, Hanoi Jane, Hanoi Jane, You'll always be a commie in my brain.

	23-01-2003 16:27									#60
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Goingonit Ultra-leftist political views? Check. Visceral hatred of America? Check. Love of Communist regimes regardless of human-rights failings? Check. Slightly faulty syntax? Check. I think we have found a Eurocom.

Oh, how true...