28-01-2003 05:31									#61
	Tired of ads?

Another thing to keep in mind is that there aren't as many privates as you might assume. There are a lot of NCOs, who make more money. Many if not most people who enter the service as a private reach the junior NCO ranks before the end of their first term of service. Being a professional force with much lower turnover than a draft force means that there are more people with more years in service and higher ranks, which means that the average pay is a good deal higher than the figures given for new recruits.

	28-01-2003 05:33									#62
	Re: Are US soldiers paid too little? Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave I have read on a Croatian site that privates in US are paid only 1300 USD per month. Now that being a Croatian site obviously makes me think if that is correct as the subsequent 26000 USD/ year seem low to me for a professionals who are expected to risk their life at work .

1300X12=26000?

Must be that New Math.

	28-01-2003 05:34									#63
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hi ,

become a warrant officer , they make plenty of money , and the job does not have the problems of an officer (!)

have a nice day

	28-01-2003 05:36									#64
	Re: Re: Are US soldiers paid too little? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Frogger 1300X12=26000? Must be that New Math.

hi ,

he must mean twice a month , ......

have a nice day

	28-01-2003 06:00									#65
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They are underpaid, but it is relatively easy to move up if you have the right attitude.

I recently left for many of the same reasons Oerdin described, AND the fact that I would like to be home more often than not.

@Oerdin: I saw Camp Bondsteel when it was a big empty hill as the 1ID rolled in... Now it is one of the biggest posts in Europe. If any money can be saved, I think cutting the fat from Brown and Root would be the biggest bonus.

	28-01-2003 08:51									#66
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The fact that the US is basically defended by blacks and hispanics would suggest the pay is very low.

Maybe they should bring back the British system where soldiers and sailors got a share of the loot from battle wins.

Give em shares in United Oil Iraq.................

	28-01-2003 09:04									#67
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With benefits and such, US soldiers get paid ok. And during war time they often get "hazard pay". After serving 2 tours in Vietnam, my dad was able to squirrel enough money away that if he wanted to, when he returned he coulda bought a a really nice car, or even a middle-class home!

And when one takes into account the education levels of most lower level enlisted men, they will find with benefits and all, they make a pretty good living compared to others with equivalent education (i.e. high school diploma or equivaleny test) in other fields. Of course, the enlisted man does work hard for his living, with constant physical training and battle training, but most of the volunteers who make up our ranks do enjoy what they do, for whatever reason they do it.

Kman

	28-01-2003 09:49									#68
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Speaking of which, does anyone know the averege test scores (not IQ, their fallacious) of averege recruits?

	28-01-2003 10:14									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse The fact that the US is basically defended by blacks and hispanics would suggest the pay is very low.

Bogus / Troll

	28-01-2003 10:20									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Speaking of which, does anyone know the averege test scores (not IQ, their fallacious) of averege recruits?

good question, id be interested to find out. If i were to make an educated guess, id say most are of average intellegence, with a few above, and a few below. Any truely inept soldiers are weeded out pretty quickly. Its only during a draft and the country is desperate for troops when you get real morons operating heavy weaponry and heavy machinery...

	28-01-2003 10:30									#71
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I'd have to say soldiers are overpaid, seeing as how I am absolutely appalled at being forced to subsidize war through taxes.

Now, if you want to set up a system with a tiny, police-force like army, with a constitutional ban on fighting outside the borders of the US, then possibly I'd support a pay raise, provided I was not being forced to pay it.

	28-01-2003 11:06									#72
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When I join the pay was $78.00 a month. When I left boot I was promoted to E-2, and I was getting 84 a month and when I was promoted to E-3 with over 1 year I was making a little over a 90 a month. Hey I thought that was big money for me. At home before I joined I was making $0.00. (1962)

	28-01-2003 17:15									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Flatlander Fox @Oerdin: I saw Camp Bondsteel when it was a big empty hill as the 1ID rolled in... Now it is one of the biggest posts in Europe. If any money can be saved, I think cutting the fat from Brown and Root would be the biggest bonus.

I would have to agree with your assessment of brown and root. Those guys do next to nothing and then demand huge sums of money to do even that. The American employees literally sat around all day collecting their pay checks while their Albanian employees did all the work for a pentence of a pay check.

The problem is there was no competetive bidding so the prices went through the usual government bloat. At the current pay rate we could probably pay less by deoutsourcing that work and giving it back to military personnel. That said I wouldn't mind getting a job with Brown & Root in Europe.

	28-01-2003 18:03									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse The fact that the US is basically defended by blacks and hispanics would suggest the pay is very low. Maybe they should bring back the British system where soldiers and sailors got a share of the loot from battle wins. Give em shares in United Oil Iraq.................

hi ,

dont forget the ragtag of internet troll who are amongst them , .......

it is thanks to that ethnical pool that the US army is one of the best in the world , .......

and if you really want a buck or two extra , sell yourself , there are great deals going on if you look at them , and last but not least , you can always join a unit that is in need of extra skill's , then the money starts to roll in , .....

have a nice armed forces day

	29-01-2003 03:23									#75
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@ Oerdin

You saw the Brown and Root Albanians WORKING!

I kid you not, one day I watched two U.S. B&R employees and twelve Albanians take 14 hours to wash a GP medium tent.

Work-SmokeBreak-SmokeBreak--Breakfast-SmokeBreak-Work-SmokeBreak-SmokeBreak-GeneralSnackBreak-Work-Lunch-Smokebreak etc etc etc...

Pop Quiz: Who owns B&W?

	29-01-2003 03:26									#76
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The army gets great fringe benefits. While you get paid only 26k a year or so... you don't have hardly any expenses. The military, like any other occupation in American capitalism, is paid the lowest amount possible for people willing to do the job. And Sloww... only a commie would suggest otherwise

	30-01-2003 01:06									#77
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by panag hi , get an overseas posting , for most e1 to e5 it double s the pay , or get a special course (!) have a nice day

Well, I am an E-4 based overseas. I get about 10% more. However, I also make base pay, cola, flyers pay, iminent danger and pretty much get a combat zone tax exemption every month so that adds up to about 50% extra money per month - about $2000 all told. However, you weigh that againt the fact that I work on average 70-80 hours a week, its not so good.

quote: The fact that the US is basically defended by blacks and hispanics would suggest the pay is very low.

That's bull.

Based upon a report in Navy Times - I'll give you the numbers tomorrow, after I look it up, there is a proportionally higher percentage of minorities in the service. However, these minorities make up a higher percentage of noncomabt roles, such as YN, DK, PN, LN, RP, PH, JO, HM, DT and the like. The actual percentage of frontline combat roles is about par with the American landscape.

quote: Speaking of which, does anyone know the averege test scores (not IQ, their fallacious) of averege recruits?

Well, I was my divisional yeoman in bootcamp, meaning I had to do a lot of paperwork, and keep track of stuff, but one of the things I had to do was keep track of test scores. Including peoples ASVAB, I would say that most people in the military are of the same intelligence as normal people out there. Some brighter, some not, but there is no real difference between them and the real world. Our jobs seperate us out more, just like in the real world. Of course, dunces dont get to become nucs, but even the military offers room to change. You can retake your ASVAB, and crossrate, if you want.

Any other questions for an overseas, about to be deployed active duty sailor?

	30-01-2003 01:48									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Midshipman Well, I am an E-4 based overseas. I get about 10% more. However, I also make base pay, cola, flyers pay, iminent danger and pretty much get a combat zone tax exemption every month so that adds up to about 50% extra money per month - about $2000 all told. However, you weigh that againt the fact that I work on average 70-80 hours a week, its not so good. That's bull. Based upon a report in Navy Times - I'll give you the numbers tomorrow, after I look it up, there is a proportionally higher percentage of minorities in the service. However, these minorities make up a higher percentage of noncomabt roles, such as YN, DK, PN, LN, RP, PH, JO, HM, DT and the like. The actual percentage of frontline combat roles is about par with the American landscape. Well, I was my divisional yeoman in bootcamp, meaning I had to do a lot of paperwork, and keep track of stuff, but one of the things I had to do was keep track of test scores. Including peoples ASVAB, I would say that most people in the military are of the same intelligence as normal people out there. Some brighter, some not, but there is no real difference between them and the real world. Our jobs seperate us out more, just like in the real world. Of course, dunces dont get to become nucs, but even the military offers room to change. You can retake your ASVAB, and crossrate, if you want. Any other questions for an overseas, about to be deployed active duty sailor?

hi ,

, 70-80 hours a week is a lot , is your study time in it or so , ...

if not , get a transfer to another post if you like it , .....

huh , there are a lot of post's open in europe or japan for "special" skill's , ...

have a nice day E-4

	30-01-2003 02:16									#79
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Flatlander Fox @ Oerdin You saw the Brown and Root Albanians WORKING! I kid you not, one day I watched two U.S. B&R employees and twelve Albanians take 14 hours to wash a GP medium tent. Work-SmokeBreak-SmokeBreak--Breakfast-SmokeBreak-Work-SmokeBreak-SmokeBreak-GeneralSnackBreak-Work-Lunch-Smokebreak etc etc etc... Pop Quiz: Who owns B&W?

Halburton, who else? When I was there they were still constructing those artillery shelters so the Albanians were getting flogged pretty hard. Plus don't forget all those Albies who cooked your food three times a day every day.

I made the mistake of trading an American MRE for a Russian MRE once, just out of curiousity, so I could see how the other half lived. Yuck! Who ever is in charge of providing food to the Russian army should be drug out into the street and shot. It had the taste and consistancy of dog food. No wonder all the Russians were always asking me for American rations!

After that I finally understood why the Russians would bus 10 bus loads of soldiers every Saturday and Sunday just so they eat at Bondsteel's mess hall.

	30-01-2003 02:30									#80
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Flatlander: Were you at Bondsteel or Camp Casey? I was stationed at Bondsteel but I got to flot around a lot so I ended up spending alot of time in the British and German sectors. I even got to spend a week in Irish Army's camp since I took part in an exchange program.

Now, the Irish have a well deserved reputation for drinking. The Cantina opened each night at 6:30 and it stayed open until EVERY single last drop of alcohle was consumed. People would often by 10 beers at a time just so they could make sure they'd have enough to drink for the rest of the night.

One of my fondest memories of Kosovo is when the Irish throw a charity party and invited a bunch of KFOR brass to take part. Now Americans weren't supposed to drink so a couple of my Irish friends hooked my buddies and I up with some Irish Army Uniforms which we wore to the party. I remember getting put on the spot and trying to explain to an American LTC why a white guy (me), a Mexican, a black guy, and their Albanian interpretor all were in the Irish Army. He actually bought the story we told him too.

	30-01-2003 07:52									#81
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Flatlander: Were you at Bondsteel or Camp Casey? I was stationed at Bondsteel but I got to flot around a lot so I ended up spending alot of time in the British and German sectors. I even got to spend a week in Irish Army's camp since I took part in an exchange program. Now, the Irish have a well deserved reputation for drinking. The Cantina opened each night at 6:30 and it stayed open until EVERY single last drop of alcohle was consumed. People would often by 10 beers at a time just so they could make sure they'd have enough to drink for the rest of the night. One of my fondest memories of Kosovo is when the Irish throw a charity party and invited a bunch of KFOR brass to take part. Now Americans weren't supposed to drink so a couple of my Irish friends hooked my buddies and I up with some Irish Army Uniforms which we wore to the party. I remember getting put on the spot and trying to explain to an American LTC why a white guy (me), a Mexican, a black guy, and their Albanian interpretor all were in the Irish Army. He actually bought the story we told him too.

I was at Camp Monteith actually, and fought off the birds crapping in our food (Ever see the HUGE flocks over Gjilane?) and such back when we first went in (1999).

I made it to the Russian sector a few times, partied with the Germans a few times (I knew a guy over there and speak pretty good German so he gave me some "work" to do there).

The Eagles Nest (Camp Casey now maybe, or is Casey between Bondsteel and Monteith now?) was a pretty intense place when I was there, and the stoopid "jail-like" atmosphere around the camps at times was horrible. It was a looneybin, but the inmates were armed.

Did the Mad Mortarman ever make a return visit to any of the checkpoints? He was my favorite aspect of that little portion of my life.

	30-01-2003 08:05									#82
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quote: One of my fondest memories of Kosovo is when the Irish throw a charity party and invited a bunch of KFOR brass to take part. Now Americans weren't supposed to drink so a couple of my Irish friends hooked my buddies and I up with some Irish Army Uniforms which we wore to the party. I remember getting put on the spot and trying to explain to an American LTC why a white guy (me), a Mexican, a black guy, and their Albanian interpretor all were in the Irish Army. He actually bought the story we told him too.

Good Job.

	30-01-2003 09:49									#83
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The pay for the army isn't great, but that doesn't bother me so much as the army's efficiency (read "lack thereof") in getting it to the enlisted men. My cousin, up until this month, had not received his pay in several months. It wasn't a huge deal for him (he pretty much saves his money, still pissed him off though), but I just kept thinking about other guys who had families to support and what that would do to them.

	30-01-2003 15:39									#84
	Support Apolyton

hi ,

, join the finance branch , .....

anyway , there are plenty of ways to make an extra buck in the army , if one really wants to get more money he could get training and posting in a special unit , often they pay far better then others , TDY pays not bad neither , the per diem and COL are sometimes also excellent , well the best is to talk to a career counselor or recruiter

have a nice day , regardless if you are an enlisted , warrant or regular officer

	31-01-2003 06:21									#85
	Put an end to popups!

::: throws in $.02 :::

As an E-2 in the Navy, I would have to agree with the assesment that American Servicemen are very much underpaid. Many a paycheck when I looked at the statement and thought " Damn, I ain't getting paid enough".

That having said, American Servicemen for the most part recieve benefits that, quite simply, are non-existant in the Private sector. Free Healthcare on a scale most people don't have. Free housing, or, if you live off base, an allotmant based upon the average cost of rent in the area. Free food, OR, if you don't use the mess hall, an allotment. The allotment increases depending upon paygrade and whether or not you have family.

Tuition Assistance. The only thing you have to pay for for college courses are books.

Recreation stuff. I'm typing this on a Navy Provided computer, in a Navy Provided Internet Cafe, free.

Discounts on commercial items. We have Exchanges for retail items that do "price matching" with private stores "out in town." We also have a Supermarket, where, if the Navy Times hasn't been lying more 'n usual, there's an average of 30% off your bill.

So, for a young single guy like me who lives in the barracks and walks to work everyday, it evens out some.

	31-01-2003 21:54									#86
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Lonestar - whats your rate, where are you based and what do you do?

	31-01-2003 22:22									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Flatlander Fox I was at Camp Monteith actually, and fought off the birds crapping in our food (Ever see the HUGE flocks over Gjilane?) and such back when we first went in (1999). *(extra stuff sniped to shorten post)* Did the Mad Mortarman ever make a return visit to any of the checkpoints? He was my favorite aspect of that little portion of my life.

Hey! Believe it or not one of my jobs was to find intel to help track down the mad mortarman. We kept working with a number of key communicators in the Iron Triangle and the MPs and some guys from the 1st Armored division actually tracked him down and arrested him right before I left. Apparently, the mad morderman and his brother had quite a stash of explosives in their house and the UXO guys didn't think it was safe to move it all to another location for disposal. So, they ended up blowing it up in place along with his entire house. The moral of the story is don't blow up houses and fire mortar shells when KFOR is around.

Yeah, I swong through Monteith on several occations. The first PX they had there was a real dump but once they got those metal portable houses set up the place improved alot. There was a great German restaurant in Gjilane which my friends and I used to go to all the time. It was off the beaten path so no one ever really came looking for us and the Albanian who owned the place would always buy us a round of beer?

	31-01-2003 22:24									#88
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BTW I got the names mixed up. Camp Casey was the base in Slopje, Monteith was in Gjilane, and Bondsteel was east of Vitina. I was thinking of Camp Monteith in my previous post but for some reason I wrote Casey.

	31-01-2003 22:28									#89
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quote: The Eagles Nest (Camp Casey now maybe, or is Casey between Bondsteel and Monteith now?) was a pretty intense place when I was there, and the stoopid "jail-like" atmosphere around the camps at times was horrible. It was a looneybin, but the inmates were armed.

The eagle's nest got renamed "The Factory" after the big red one took over. You know we were probably both in Kosovo at the same time. Kind of funny how people can be so close together but never run into each other.

	03-02-2003 01:55									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Midshipman Lonestar - whats your rate, where are you based and what do you do?

I would hope my Avatar would've helped Midshipmen.

I'm a CTMSA Currently at CNC Corry Station, just downrange from NAS Pensacola. I'm killing time before I report to the U.S.S. Bunker Hill.

I'm due to be advanced to E-3 here by the end of the month though, and E-4 six months after that....CTM's have an accelerated advancement program.