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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
What game design model? |
You know, the one where somebody thinks up a game design idea, sits down with the team, discuss it, plan out the game, start developing the game...
The innovation that happens here will happen regardless of how many other people are huddling together throughout the world making games.
quote:
That's business model, nothing to do with game design. |
Um. Hmm. Why is this so hard to understand?
Game publishers like Vivendi Interactive straddle the line between business model and game design. They want to make money, the current "it" thing is GTA3 -- so they set some of their teams up working on GTA3 clones.
My whole point is innovation doesn't necessarily increase with the more companies you have doing it. Innovation is largely independent of market conditions.
Cite? WTF?
Game design is an art. Just...think...about...it...
Music innovation doesn't necessarily increase the more major record labels you have, game innovation doesn't necessarily increase the more major game companies you have.
People will have ideas and implement those ideas regardless of market conditions in things like game design and music...sometimes the corporate suits get in the middle of it and tell people to "make a game like blahblah, only different".
There's just no real correlation between people thinking that large companies like Microsoft and Nintendo will reduce innovation.
Company size doesn't have anything to do with it. If anything, they're more likely to take risks since they've got the money...
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
You know, the one where somebody thinks up a game design idea, sits down with the team, discuss it, plan out the game, start developing the game...
The innovation that happens here will happen regardless of how many other people are huddling together throughout the world making games. |
That was a rhetorical question.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Um. Hmm. Why is this so hard to understand?
Game publishers like Vivendi Interactive straddle the line between business model and game design. They want to make money, the current "it" thing is GTA3 -- so they set some of their teams up working on GTA3 clones. |
So that's a business decision, not one made by game designers. Not that they have any say anyway.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
My whole point is innovation doesn't necessarily increase with the more companies you have doing it. Innovation is largely independent of market conditions. |
So competition doesn't change the market conditions?
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Cite? WTF?
Game design is an art. Just...think...about...it...
Music innovation doesn't necessarily increase the more major record labels you have, game innovation doesn't necessarily increase the more major game companies you have. |
You keep saying this, but you don't have any argument to back you up. On the other hand, for what competition can do to companies, just look at Detroit. If it weren't for the Japanese, you think they still would have made such drastic improvements in their cars?
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
People will have ideas and implement those ideas regardless of market conditions in things like game design and music...sometimes the corporate suits get in the middle of it and tell people to "make a game like blahblah, only different". |
What makes music and computer games different from cars and home electronics?
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
There's just no real correlation between people thinking that large companies like Microsoft and Nintendo will reduce innovation. |
Detroit. 'nuff said.
quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Company size doesn't have anything to do with it. If anything, they're more likely to take risks since they've got the money... |
It's not the size, it's the number of companies.
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MRT144
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Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:25
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i agree with asher...when youre selling popular art innovation matters little to the majority of the companies. they wait for one company to innovate and then copy and sell.
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Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
It costs many millions of dollars to make a modern game, Snapcase, you can't go and compare that to music where the costs are a fraction of that.
You need big backers to do a big game, innovative or not. And smalltime studios are going to have a hard time finding funding unless they have a big daddy parent company who brings in the dough. |
Asher please try to limit your comments to areas that you actually have a clue about. The most popular online game right now: Counter-Strike. Did not cost millions to make. In fact, it's a mod, but is now sold as a stand-alone. The developers released beta versions online for free. The game was great because it built a loyal base of fans that had direct contact with the developers; many of whom were fans to begin with. Your formula for how games are made is severly flawed as there are many more exceptions to that rule.
Sure, big fat software companies spend millions making crappy games (most of them on consoles). But the best games come about not because of the amount of money thrown their way, but the dedication, talent, and creative vision of their creators. Case in point, the game that this website is dedicated to... CIVILIZATION.
So stick to being a MS fanboy...
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
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quote:
Asher please try to limit your comments to areas that you actually have a clue about. The most popular online game right now: Counter-Strike. Did not cost millions to make. |
I knew someone would try this.
CounterStrike is a mod. The core engine itself was developed by Valve, and a couple Canadian college students modded it in their free time. Sure, it's a game, but it's actually not a commercial product (yes, I know they sell it in the stores now, but it's still free). We're talking about commercial games -- think about it. Your were *****ing about MS buying Vivendi's game division, ranting about lack of innovation, etc. Clearly, there will always be lots of fun free games and mods being made like CS, but they're not full-fledged games ala Half-Life (which provided the engine, which is by far the hardest part...).
I'm not sure if I made that clear or not. You were the one *****ing about megacorporations ruining the game industry and discouraging innovation, and now you just tried to use CounterStrike as an example against *ME*. Don't you see the problem? CounterStrike is a mod to a game published by Sierra, developed on an engine former MS bigwigs, and owned by a megacorporation: Vivendi.
Of course mods and freebie games are easier. You don't need to code your own damn engine and do all sorts of testing. THAT is what I'm talking about, true commercial games. THAT should be obvious. Mods and freebie games are also completely independent of your rant of megacorporations ruining the industry...
But I do enjoy your pathetic attempts to insult me, especially when you use an example like counterstrike when you're trying to prove your point about megacorporations ruining the industry. 
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25-01-2003 08:29
Wand of gg and such. Thus I think expansion is not for me even if no MS.
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