29-01-2003 20:38									#31
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Is this the same guy who withdrew from the UN mission to help provide contraceptives and abortions to third world countries?

How nice of him to authorize help to combat AIDS in Africa.

	29-01-2003 21:38									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: If not, where did you get that "lose massive amounts of money" from? Let's see deep discounts in the price of pharmacutical drugs to Africa, and in massive quantities of drugs. Can you not see how some dictator could decide this would be a great moneymaking scheme for him? I bet that a lot of these drugs find their way back into the West and are sold on the black market hurting pharmacutical companies.

well the same would happen with the 'original' drugs.

if africa is currently a non-market for aids drugs (original or none), i see no issue. however, if the issue is actually providing another market for those who produce cheap copy drugs, i see the problem.

	29-01-2003 22:21									#33
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I'm not a republican at all, and I did not catch the entire speech, but here are my thoughts

I think everything that Bush highlighted was right on target. I think that all of the issues were very timely, and important, and I agreed with the majority of his stated goals. So on that part I thought the speech was very good. However, the thing is I usually don't agree with the methods used to reach those goal. The devil really is in the details, and for me I think the means used to accomplish those goals will turn out to be something I'm totally opposed to. So although I liked most of what I was hearing I had to resign myself to think good speech, but bad upcoming legislation.

	29-01-2003 23:10									#34
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in terms of effectiveness on the target audience of the mindless American populous... good speech...

overall ideals and policy? I gave a rave review in the other thread

	29-01-2003 23:24									#35
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Just as last year, well given but not well thought out.

The president proposes -670 billion for the budget, and +15 billion minimum (and whatever the March war and aftermath will cost). Something will give, and it will be that AIDS and energy efficiency money.

Can any of you see Tom Delay and the House leadership push for 15 billion to help AIDS in Africa? Honestly? IN what form will the money be used? Direct grants to governments? How do you police it? Grants to NGO's? Which ones? Grants to UNICEF and WHO? Aren't they simply part or a useless organization (UN)?

Lets wait 1 year: but I do feel like making a bet: $20 bucks that come December, that 15 billion for AIDS sort fo got lost in the mail, or in Tom Delay's mailbox.

As for the 'case' agaisnt Iraq: it was emotional, and if you base foreign policy on emotion, it was 'made'. If you agree with his MANY, MANY assumptions, then it was advanced. If you question his assumptions, or view them as false (like me), he did nothing.

	30-01-2003 00:12									#36
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" I'm not sure what you are referring to, but it was probably one of those deals where U.S. pharmacutical companies take it up the a$$ while the international group congratulates itself on how generous it is. I bet Bush's plan uses American taxpayer money to pay a better price for the drugs."



Yep, that's the one.

	30-01-2003 00:31									#37
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I would give it an -A as a speech, he had some surprisses (The Aids package, the Hydro car), his budget stimulas tax cuts, the mentor thing, the faith based relief of drug addicts, ect.

But he seemed to become deadly earnest at the end, stating facts against Saddam, and saying OUTRIGHT Saddam is linked to Al Qaeda.

The Speech also seemed to be directed a bit at France, the comments about the Iraqi shell game with the inspectors, and the statement that the US will "Disarm" (Read that as obliterate) Saddam.

Locke's democratic rebuttal was a bore, wooden promises of 'The Dems have a plan, trust us!"
I don't think so.

	30-01-2003 00:33									#38
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Just as last year, well given but not well thought out. The president proposes -670 billion for the budget, and +15 billion minimum (and whatever the March war and aftermath will cost). Something will give, and it will be that AIDS and energy efficiency money. Can any of you see Tom Delay and the House leadership push for 15 billion to help AIDS in Africa? Honestly? IN what form will the money be used? Direct grants to governments? How do you police it? Grants to NGO's? Which ones? Grants to UNICEF and WHO? Aren't they simply part or a useless organization (UN)? Lets wait 1 year: but I do feel like making a bet: $20 bucks that come December, that 15 billion for AIDS sort fo got lost in the mail, or in Tom Delay's mailbox. As for the 'case' agaisnt Iraq: it was emotional, and if you base foreign policy on emotion, it was 'made'. If you agree with his MANY, MANY assumptions, then it was advanced. If you question his assumptions, or view them as false (like me), he did nothing.

GePap, you obviously are from Missouri.

However, George Bush said a lot about American values in that speech. He touched on education, drug addicts and charities. He threw the US behind helping African countries stop their AIDS epidemic. I would find it hard to believe than anyone would be against Bush's vision.

He spoke of bringing liberty (from oppression) to the people of Iraq. You are against this in principle. Why?

Further on Iraq, what would it take to convince you that it is Saddam Hussein and not George Bush that is lying?

	30-01-2003 10:19									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui But the UN resolution did NOT provide for that. It was simply lower prices for the drugs and there was even some talk about opening patents.

UN resolution? I was thinking about a WTO agreement.

quote: GENEVA, Dec. 20 — The United States on Friday effectively blocked agreement on a global pact to allow poor countries to buy cheap drugs to tackle epidemics such as AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis, diplomats said.

story

	30-01-2003 13:22									#40
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Probably the best speech I've ever heard Bush give. Very effective. Surprising to see him actually put a price tag to programs, as he rarely does this.

Funny Osama Bin Laden didn't get a mention. I expected at least a nod to race relations and state budget deficits too.

The Response was the worst I've ever heard. The Democrats certainly could have come up with someone better than Gary Locke. It was like Ensign Kim from Star Trek: Voyager was suddenly governor of Washington.

	30-01-2003 13:57									#41
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Why even have a rebuttal? The Democrates could lose elections for some time to come if they don't get an agenda.

	30-01-2003 16:23									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia Is this the same guy who withdrew from the UN mission to help provide contraceptives and abortions to third world countries? How nice of him to authorize help to combat AIDS in Africa.

Well, I would certainly hope that ANY American president would have the character to keep us free of such blatantly immoral activities. Why should America dollars be spent to murder third world babies Alinestra?

	30-01-2003 17:40									#43
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you crack me up jimmy... a baby born with AIDS in Africa will maybe live to age 4. It won't have a chance at life, it won't even get medical attention. Sentencing a human being to a short, painful life is much more cruel than aborting it in the first place but in your defense, most anti-choice people don't bother to think about their misguided views

	30-01-2003 19:46									#44
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Jimmy, again this all boils down to values and morals, but remember that not everybody holds the same values as you do. Some people might possibly think that contraceptives are actually quite useful things.

Then again, some people might have a chance to use them once in a while.

	30-01-2003 19:52									#45
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Some people think that guns are useful things. Does that mean we should give guns to them?

Then again, some people might have a chance to use them once in a while.

	30-01-2003 19:58									#46
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi Some people think that guns are useful things. Does that mean we should give guns to them? Then again, some people might have a chance to use them once in a while.

remind me, do any anti-gun circles in the USA actually lobby against american arms exports abroad?

	30-01-2003 21:04									#47
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quote: Originally posted by LaRusso remind me, do any anti-gun circles in the USA actually lobby against american arms exports abroad?

Whoosh! Over your head!

	30-01-2003 21:25									#48
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Ned:

It is writen were I am from in my sign.

On AIDS relief: this administration has yet to fullfil its monetary promises to NY City and state. The admin. has a very poor record when it comes to coming up with money it promises, and it does have to get such plans by a congressional leadership in the House that is not much interested. Last Year the senate passed a bill for more millions for AIDS relief but the House never took it up. Can you tell me why the pres. will all of a sudden spend political capitol on this in the House?

On Iraq: "briging liberty to Iraq", please!. The US will end the Saddam regime..whether it will bring liberty is a whole different issue. They are not the same thing, and the Bushies have shown no comprehensive after plan.

As for who is lying: Ned, I have never said Saddam isn't lyin: of course he is. He probably still has Chem and Bipo, though the IEIA inspectors think that hois nuclear program did come to and end. THe point is Ned, that I buy 0 of the admin.s assumptions about why Iraq is a threat. in the last 10 years Saddam has killed excatly 0 Americans, Osama 3000. Yet while Osama is still out there, all of a sudden Saddam is target #1? No, I don't buy the crap that he will give WMD to Al Qaeda or any other organization not under 100% his control, nor do I buy that he would ever use them without provocation agaist the US becase somehow we would fail to catch him: if he believed that, he has had 10 years to do it, and as far as I can see, he hasn't done it. For some reason, he must think its not that simple.

So, to sum it up Ned: I don't trust Saddam at all. He is lying, BUT I DON'T CARE, BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN, FOR A DECADE, CONTAINED, AND HE WOULD CONTINUE CONTAINED, FOR AS LONG AS THE US WISHES HIM TO BE. (using some of the president's style, there)