05-02-2003 06:43									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I would be against making contact with alien civilizations only for their own protection.

Either they are less advanced than us, in which case we aren't gonna find them anytime soon or they are more advanced than us, which means we don't want them to find us. Even assuming they aren't a warlike or imperial species, our civilizations would be massively altered by contact, and our societies would experience massive disruption.

Carl Sagan said that warlike societies were most likely to wipe themselves out before they reached spacefilght. One hopes he's right.

	05-02-2003 08:27									#32
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I have to agree with che. "Space aliens" doesn't exactly invoke the image of fungus growing on rocks.

	05-02-2003 08:44									#33
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Oh so we are depending on Carl Sagan. Great. Makes me feel safe.

It is perfectly plausible that advanced aliens have been watching us develop since before the dinos.

	05-02-2003 08:58									#34
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If you only look objectively at the level of technology the world reached before the spacecraft was recovered (area 51) and the technological advances since, you would have to conclude that we are not alone.

	05-02-2003 09:01									#35
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The advance in technolgy always accelerates due to the accumulation in knowledge. Nothing surprising there. Besides, most of the inventions did not come from the military, which puts a nice hole in your theory.

	05-02-2003 09:01									#36
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A Carl Sagan hater, huh? Sagan's IQ and knowledge is much more than every single Bush family member combined, my friend. And even then, this UberBush glob of ignorance would still not be able to beat Sagan at Jeopardy.

God Bless America

	05-02-2003 10:20									#37
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick If you only look objectively at the level of technology the world reached before the spacecraft was recovered (area 51) and the technological advances since, you would have to conclude that we are not alone.

Well, shit son, how do you objectively explain the level of technology the world reached prior to 1947? And how do you objectively explain away the fact that the progress past that date is logically derived from advances achieved before that date? I guess it is now too un-PC to claim that Egyptians were so stupid they couldn't layer blocks, so now the idea is that white males are so stupid they couldn't have invented the transistor? That is so much better!

	05-02-2003 10:22									#38
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick If you only look objectively at the level of technology the world reached before the spacecraft was recovered (area 51) and the technological advances since, you would have to conclude that we are not alone.

How the heck does some wheather balloon fragments help our technology advance?

	05-02-2003 10:24									#39
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Either they are less advanced than us, in which case we aren't gonna find them anytime soon or they are more advanced than us, which means we don't want them to find us. Even assuming they aren't a warlike or imperial species, our civilizations would be massively altered by contact, and our societies would experience massive disruption. Carl Sagan said that warlike societies were most likely to wipe themselves out before they reached spacefilght. One hopes he's right.

wouldnt warlike species have more need to advance. Like for example. us?

	05-02-2003 10:35									#40
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I doubt that Bush used the term "Space Aliens." Besides, the US government has long believed in the possiblity of extra terrestial life. Look at SETI and the original Explorer that took with it artifacts of human existence as it exited the solar system.

As to UFO's. They certainly exist. But what they are is still a mystery.

Last edited by Ned on 05-02-2003 at 12:23

	05-02-2003 10:36									#41
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I think that the UFO sightings that are popularized are mostly just natural phenomena. Although I think that some are probably government aerospace prototypes.

	05-02-2003 10:37									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Calc II wouldnt warlike species have more need to advance. Like for example. us?

We aren't all that warlike. Unfortunately, some "leaders" are.

	05-02-2003 10:41									#43
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We're more of a "capitalistic" war-like society. Bear with me. We don't necessarily kill all of each other, just enough to "compete" and advance. Eventually, we'll probably find someone else to "compete" with instead of ourselves.

	05-02-2003 10:55									#44
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quote: Carl Sagan said that warlike societies were most likely to wipe themselves out before they reached spacefilght.

What did Sagan base this statement on?

	05-02-2003 10:58									#45
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His seamonkeys ??

	05-02-2003 11:04									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu What did Sagan base this statement on?

His working of The Drake equation in the book Cosmos.

	05-02-2003 11:10									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman I'm gobsmacked. Just when I thought that the situation couldn't get any more screwed up. If Iraq doesn't distract the voters, then wheel out ET. What next? "Ma fellow Americans, we have uncovered new and convincing evidence that Saddam Hussein is the Anti-Christ."

I burst out laughing when i thought you were gonan say...

"Ma fellow Americans, we have uncovered new and convincing evidence that Saddam Hussein is a Space Alien."


Kman

	05-02-2003 11:36									#48
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I don't know about this UFO thing. If you take the number of people who have seen ghosts and the number of people who have seen alien spacecraft it is probably similar. Quite possibly more people have seen ghosts than UFOs. Yet no one seriously thinks ghosts could actually exist.

Poltergeists is another matter entirely - that is objects mysteriously moving or falling down. I believe in that, but I don't know what causes it. Might be a natural phenomenon.

	05-02-2003 11:38									#49
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Sounds pretty arbitrary, Tripledoc, but I guess that's why they call them "beliefs" and not "facts."

	05-02-2003 12:27									#50
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Well the way some of these UFOs behave, they have to be some sort of holographic projection of some sort - probably naturally caused.

	05-02-2003 12:52									#51
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My biggest beef with all these UFO's are, why are they sneaking around snooping? Why don't they just land in front of the UN in broad daylight to make a statement?

	05-02-2003 13:04									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Calc II wouldnt warlike species have more need to advance. Like for example. us?

We came perilously close to anihilating ourselves. If we were only slightly more warlike, the master race would be cockroaches. We really only made it by the skin of our teeth.

	05-02-2003 13:15									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger My biggest beef with all these UFO's are, why are they sneaking around snooping? Why don't they just land in front of the UN in broad daylight to make a statement?

Plausible deniability.
If they do make contact and there's some kind of record of it they might be in some way associated with mankinds future actions. Given mankinds past actions they may not be enthralled with this possibility.
ie: Maybe their society hasn't quite evolved beyond space lawyers yet.

	05-02-2003 13:22									#54
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Bush is just being populistic.

The only thing he believes in is money.

	05-02-2003 14:00									#55
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quote: Carl Sagan said that warlike societies were most likely to wipe themselves out before they reached spacefilght. One hopes he's right.

not necessarily. Once humanity will live in more than a single planet by the millions, I don't think that we will be able to wipe ourselves out. That wouldn't prevent us from massacring the poor peaceful species of Zharhhhu that lives on Vega's second planet.

Seriously, If there is intelligent life, and we are more advanced than it is, there is no doubt in my heart that we'll make them extinct.

	05-02-2003 14:19									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Seriously, If there is intelligent life, and we are more advanced than it is, there is no doubt in my heart that we'll make them extinct.

Not necessarily ... My housecat is actually pretty darned intelligent IMO ... and humans have coddled and nurtured pets for centuries.
Now intelligent life on par with homo sapiens technologically (and able to present a threat - implied or imagined) is a different matter entirely ...

	05-02-2003 14:28									#57
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Plausible deniability. If they do make contact and there's some kind of record of it they might be in some way associated with mankinds future actions. Given mankinds past actions they may not be enthralled with this possibility. ie: Maybe their society hasn't quite evolved beyond space lawyers yet.

Possibly the Prime Directive.

	05-02-2003 14:42									#58
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If there is intelligent life I would think there would be a good chance they looked like us. Depending on the general climate of the planet they might be shorter or taller or what have you. Maybe there would be the possibility of interbreeding in which case extinction seems improbable.

On the other hand I have heard some say that first contact will probably be with an artificial intelligence incorporated into a mechanical mobile unit. Robots in short. That might pose a problem unless these entities are programmed to be ethical - that is optimally primed for survival.

Non-intelligent life - a virus for instance - will be very dangerous.

	05-02-2003 14:53									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc If there is intelligent life I would think there would be a good chance they looked like us. Depending on the general climate of the planet they might be shorter or taller or what have you. Maybe there would be the possibility of interbreeding in which case extinction seems improbable. On the other hand I have heard some say that first contact will probably be with an artificial intelligence incorporated into a mechanical mobile unit. Robots in short. That might pose a problem unless these entities are programmed to be ethical - that is optimally primed for survival. Non-intelligent life - a virus for instance - will be very dangerous.

Do you think all intelligent life is tailess?

	05-02-2003 15:58									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Do you think all intelligent life is tailess?

Cats are intelligent. But unfortunately they are also autistic which makes it hard for us to communicate with them.