06-02-2003 05:41									#31
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There are some people that know what the harvesters are due to a preview done by IGN a few months back. The review was changed within a few hours of being released and the topic was squashed on all the MOO3 boards.

A few people were banned on IGMOO and a few people were banned here as well. There are requests on both boards (punishable by bans) not to say what harvesters are. Speculation on IGMOO is bannable right now because they don't want to have to remove only the people that actually do know and share.

	06-02-2003 05:45									#32
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Some other information we've heard from various sources, like the guide:

Ithkul are a parasitic race. That goes well with the bioharvesting pop points. How big they are, what form they take, I have no idea - but I do know they are some form of parasite. Personally, I suspect they're a viral-based colony life form.

I also suspect that they start out as one of the 'dead' races for use in their pop.

I believe that the pop point bioharvesting is not the only way they can grow, though it's one of their primary ways. Based on the AARs that have the Ithkul players alone and without any other contact to another race, yet have them high in the tech tree and have multiple planets, this seems reasonable to me. An alternate explanation is that this is due entirely to migration and there was no net pop growth, but this seems unlikely.

Finally, Ithkul are the only race that has a negative penalty towards other members of it's race/species. That's downright odd. Can harvesters harvest each other then? Self-parasitism is known in the real world but is a highly uncommon activity.

	06-02-2003 05:52									#33
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Last edited by wildman45 on 06-02-2003 at 06:02

	06-02-2003 12:17									#34
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quote: Self-parasitism is known in the real world

Can you give an example, please?

	06-02-2003 12:24									#35
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Mostly bacterial colonies and fungi that end up feeding on (at first) the dead husks of themselves, and (later) on live ones. It might be cannibalism at that point instead of self-parasitism, and is used almost exclusively when the colony is dying or starving, but it's out there.

I believe the case is true for some flatworm variants, but it's been so long since I've studied multicellular biology that I couldn't tell ya, authoritatively.

	06-02-2003 12:33									#36
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I see. I imagine it's quite difficult for multicellular organisms to live solely on self-parasiting.

Regarding Ithkul, wouldn't the threat of taking over another Ithkul's host justify the diplomatic penalty? I figure there would be high competition if the number of hosts is limited.

	06-02-2003 12:37									#37
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darcy, that's an obvious jump and thus an excellent idea. I hadn't thought of it that way, but it makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Harvesters, assuming they're parasitic, are going to be far more in competition with each other than they are with anyone else out there. More than planets, or tech, or senate seats - they're competing for their very food.

That's a pretty compelling storytelling reason. They hate all the other races because of need to harvest, but they hate each other for the simple fact that in the end, they'll starve. Good call.

	07-02-2003 14:37									#38
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I just finished playing a MP game of MOO2. For fun, I created a MOO2 version of the Harvesters. This was mostly for fun but it turned out to be quite a strong custom race and I won the game (huge/advanced scenario).

Here's my MOO2 take on the Harvesters:

code:

Harvesters
----------
-6 Repulsive
+6 Spying +20
+4 Ground Combat +20
+6 Mind Control
-4 Feudal
+4 Warlord

	07-02-2003 15:33									#39
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Just out of curiosity: which race picture did you choose to reflect the harvesters ?

	07-02-2003 16:37									#40
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it looks like a sort of stock Elerian here... I liked those ones. Always customized them but I did enjoy the white angel bringing forth news on research.

I am not really strategizing around spies, nevertheless I always sent a few abroad just for the sake of having the sexy beast dressed in black leather report in my office (c'm'on I was a single student at the time ) .

note: you won't get it if you missed MoO2

Last edited by LastFromVega on 07-02-2003 at 17:54

	08-02-2003 01:25									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Cymrean Just out of curiosity: which race picture did you choose to reflect the harvesters ?

The Darloks. Close enough.

Andrew

	08-02-2003 01:37									#42
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F*** Rantz...

I'm surprised none of it (harvester stuff) ever turned up in the "whatever the title path".strategic newsgroup yet.

	08-02-2003 03:30									#43
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quote: Originally posted by LastFromVega it looks like a sort of stock Elerian here...

Apart from the other differences, the Elerians are definitely not repulsive

Andrew

	08-02-2003 05:12									#44
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I'm glad its remained mysterious and we don't all know exactly what the Harvesters are and what hte 5 X's are already. Alien Legacy was a good game because you didn't know what the story was going to throw at you next. That made up for a lot of the repetitive nature of the gameplay because you really felt like you were battling for survival against unknown forces.

	08-02-2003 13:28									#45
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One of the screenshots from the polish translation spilled some beans about the harvesters. I'm talking about the word used in the race selection screen. All that i can say is that it is not "harvester" translated into polish.

	14-02-2003 07:37									#46
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Someone on IGMOO posted a base race-relations table that had everyone on it except the Ithkul of course.

If the Ithkul are parasitic in some way, how does this work with the Meklar and Silicoid who have no organic matter?

	14-02-2003 08:11									#47
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Who said they have to be organic parasites? Why not, say, mindsuckers or something akin to that?

	14-02-2003 11:31									#48
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The strat guide says that the Ithkul have -150 relations with every other race, even of their own species. Basically, it means they probably just declare war on sight with anyone.

	15-02-2003 05:05									#49
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quote: Originally posted by viciouscycle It was also mentioned somewhere (though I can't remember where) that the Ithkul bioharvesting relied not upon agriculture but other species. So now I'm wondering if the Ithkul begin the game with some sort of "native host" on their homeworld on which they feed.

The Ithkul also sound a bit like the Goauld from Stargate SG1, they are parasites and everyone hates them as well. I hope you can rename races in moo3 in the custom setup as you could in moo2...mwaahaahaa...that way we can have the Psilons as the Azgard and the ithkul as the Goauld...hmm would be interesting.

	15-02-2003 09:10									#50
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The Ithkul sound most like the aliens from Aliens or perhaps the Zerg from Starcraft to me... bio-engineered killers that feed upon other species as hosts. It wouldn't surprise me if they're yet another Xenomorph/Zerg alien, though that would admittedly be quite cool for a TBS game to implement.

Then again, Rantz and company might have something a bit different and novel up their sleeves, which would really be quite cool.

I hope we find out soon

	15-02-2003 09:11									#51
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Demosthenes and Arnelos: One of you is really close to being right. One of you is really far off. You guys can fight over which is which.

	15-02-2003 09:15									#52
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kalbear,

Well, actually, I said two things, but I'll assume you mean what I said to be the first of the two I proposed

I'm going to hope that Rantz and company did the latter of the two I suggested, though... something truly novel.

We'll find out when we find out. Not a big deal.

	15-02-2003 16:36									#53
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My bet is on Demosthenes' theory, i've suspected it for some time but, of course, us mere mortals aren't to know exactly until the release

RELEASE IT PLEASE!!!!

	16-02-2003 00:40									#54
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SPOILERS*************
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Harvesters are a.. BEAN!



The horror..



..the horror..

	16-02-2003 07:43									#56
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OMIGosh...aren't those infant Nommo being (gulp) prepared...for...(faints dead away.)

	17-02-2003 11:39									#57
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quote: Originally posted by RolandtheMad SPOILERS*************

LMFAOROFL!!!! NOW THOSE PICTURES ARE DAMN FUNNY!

aND TO add to my previous post, the Sillicoids would be that race of crystals the SG1 team came across in series 1 (it was like the fourth episode..well in Australia it was). The race of blue crystals that the goauld blasted, and one of them replicates themself into a copy of O'neill. ANyhoo. Wot u guys reckon. Of course the Sillicoids would be less...ignorant then the crystals from sg1 were....meh. Does anyone know if Rantz likes Stargate SG1. Lol, I bet u they were all like watching a stargate episode and Rantz is like...hey lets make moo3 with influences of Stargate SG1....meh. Not that Im complaining.

	17-02-2003 12:23									#58
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Um.... the Silicoids are one of the races from the ORIGINAL Master of Orion

The only races of the 16 races in MoO3 that were in the original Master of Orion:

Humans
Klackons
Silicoids
Psilon
Sakkra
Meklars

I remember when I always loved playing the Humans because their advantage was diplomacy AND TRADE. Now both of those chief advantages of the MoO Humans are being nerfed in MoO3 I'll have to design a custom Humans (and hope they don't make a Humans like the original MoO Humans too hard to customize...).

I remember when the Sakkra were one of the more peaceful races with a fairly high probability of having pacifistic and ecologist leaders... I used to refer to them as the "Eco-Freak Dinosaurs". Boy, have they changed...

The Klackons were always the kings of production and more often than not the toughest race in the game (both MoO and MoO2). Since the attempts to nerf the Klackons' incredible advantages in MoO2 proved unsuccesful (because Collective government was overpowered), MoO3's designers seem to have done the job.... too well. I just hope the strategy guide was wrong about the Klackons being completely nerfed.

Silicoids have always been one of my favoriate races to play. They could always colonize everything and would spread like wildfire while other races were still trying to research terraforming technologies or better fuels The Silicoids' only problem was that their research stunk. In MoO2, the Silicoids were made even more powerful in industry and their science problem was removed, but nerfed for most human players because of the complete inability to negotiate with other players, shutting out a whole part of the game. The MoO3 Silicoids look pretty nerfed, but I'll give 'em a try for old time's sake (or design a custom Silicoid race that has a better shot at glory).

The Psilons haven't changed all that much. They were always the kings of research and always will be. The major changes in MoO3 are to give the Psilons a representative government, make their bioharvesting and mining poor, and give them SUPERIOR diplomacy... a spot reserved in all previous MoO series games for the Humans. Given what I've seen online, they sound as powerful as they always did, with the addition of probably a rather powerful diplomacy trait.

Meklars have always had a manufacturing/robotic advantage for being cybernetic and since MoO2 have had a repair advantage for being cybernetic. The big difference now is that the "Meklars" of MoO3 are now completely robotic, whereas the "Cynoids" of MoO3 seem more like the original Meklars. If the strategy guide is any indication (which ranks the Cynoids as the most powerful), the Cynoids live up to the original Meklars' esteemed reputation for being a potential galactic powerhouse.

All other races are inventions of either MoO2 or MoO3.

The original races weren't really based on anything from a specific TV show (especially ones that may not have even been around back then). They were based off of different types of life or potential types of life (though I'm sure there were pop culture influences on that).

Humans = Humans
Klackons = Ants/Insects
Bulrathi = Bears
Sakkra = Reptiles/Dinosaurs
Mrrshan = Cats
Alkari = Birds
Psilons = Humanoids, but with larger brains
Meklars = Cybernetic Lizards
Silicoids = Silicon Crystals
Darloks = Shapeshifters

MoO2 added...

Gnolams = Gnomes/Dwarves (inspiration from MoM)
Elerians = Elves (inspiration from MoM, possibly from Star Control's Syreen - also blue-skinned babes)
Trilarians = Fish

MoO3 deleted...

Gnolams (Rantz doesn't like Gnomes and Dwarves)
Elerians (Rantz doesn't like Blue-Skinned Elf Babes)
Mrrshan (Rantz doesn't like Cat Aliens)
Bulrathi (Rantz doesn't like Bear Aliens)
Alkari (Rantz doesn't like Bird Aliens)
Darloks (Rantz doesn't like shapeshifters)

MoO3 added...

Cynoid (actually more like the original the Meklars)
Meklars (but now completely robotic)
Evon
Raas
Grendarl
Nommo
Imsaeis
Eoladi
Tachidi
Ithkul

So there ya go. As for the Silicoids (the original topic), always been one of my favorite races. I was really annoyed that they couldn't negotiate with anyone in MoO2 and typically played a custom race that was more like the MoO Silicoids by taking a deficit in research in return for the ability to actually talk to people. I'll probably end up modifying the MoO3 Silicoids as well.

	18-02-2003 03:49									#59
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I saw the leak on UGO today. It is gone now but it pretty much confirms the speculation on this thread. According to the UGO review, the Ithkul are a parasitic race that were genetically designed by the NO to wreak havoc on the old Antarans. Somehow the Ithkul DNA got mixed with Human DNA and the Harvesters became independent and broke free from the NOs.

Originally I had guessed the Ithkul were made from the Antarans to kill the NOs but it looks like it's the other way around. Go fig.

edit: sp

Last edited by viciouscycle on 18-02-2003 at 04:44