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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
Asher, what about transferring files from work/school to the house? |
I do this constantly, daily in fact.
As I said, modern schools give out FTP and email accounts.
quote:
Like we've said, online transfers are not always possible, CD-RW drives are rare in offices/schools, USB devices require programs to be installed, which requires administrative privileges. |
Online transfers are usually available, your school/work admins can install those programs (seeing as how lots of people wouldn't be able to use floppies) for USB drives.
quote:
You're left with floppies as the media of choice. |
Perhaps if you go to some underfunded school or a place of work with really old computers and anal IT bosses who don't care if you can transfer files, then you can still use a floppy.
For most people, floppies just aren't needed anymore.
JohnT: You've completely ignored the fact that you can still buy floppy drives...they're just not going to be shipped by default because it's time to move on.
Continuing to complain about it is crying. Most people don't need it, it's better in the longrun to ditch it. If your school/company refuses to get with the time, you can still use a floppy.
Boohoo. 
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JohnT
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Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:25
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"As I said, modern schools give out FTP and email accounts. "
No, as we are trying to explain to you, your school gives out FTP and email accounts.
"You can't get a network card for your laptop?"
Are you purposely misunderstanding everything that is being posted about this subject? Now, if it helps your ego to define "modern" as "what people and things around my little sphere of influence do", please, by all means, go ahead.
"JohnT: You've completely ignored the fact that you can still buy floppy drives...they're just not going to be shipped by default because it's time to move on.
Continuing to complain about it is crying. Most people don't need it, it's better in the longrun to ditch it. If your school/company refuses to get with the time, you can still use a floppy.
Boohoo."
This was so pathetic, it wasn't even funny. Once again, your lack of experience in the real world is showing. "Just buy a floppy for your work computer." Jesus!
Last edited by JohnT on 06-02-2003 at 02:46
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
I'm looking at my brand new computer here at work and I see:
4 CD bays, 1 used.
2 Floppy bays, 1 used. |
Hey, lots of space for a floppy drive if you still need one. Kudos. 
quote:
Who gives a rats-ass if they're "antiquated" |
Because when people give me a floppy with a file on it, it's annoying as hell. They're soooo slooooooooow, people beg me all the time to find out why their floppy isn't working and ask me to salvage data from it, they've got a pathetic storage capacity which would probably hold 1 500 word Office 11 file and take 2 minutes to save it.
quote:
so's the QWERTY keyboard layout, and I don't see people whining about that. |
You're obviously not in computer science. 
I know soooo many people *****ing about QWERTY keyboards.
And it's a totally different argument. QWERTY isn't obsolete, it's just not the most optimum technique. Floppies are just plain obsolete.
quote:
Point is, just because YOU don't understand why people use them doesn't mean that people DON'T use them. I believe that is called "hubris." |
While people may still use them, it's time they stopped. And in order to stop, somebody needs to give them a kick in the butt.
quote:
Because Dell wants to save $2 per unit? |
As far as I know they add on the cost of the floppy anyway.
It's a move in the industry to move away from it. It's not to save money, it's to give people a kick in the ass to look at the better alternatives.
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Wraith
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Austin, Texas, USA
Aug 1999
time: 23:25
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Okay, I do work at Dell, but I don't have anything to do with the desktop division.
That said, this is a good move. I haven't touched a floppy in ages. They just don't work that well with modern bloatware.
--"I don't understand this. How much do floppy drives cost? 5$? 15$?"
$5 is probably about right, in bulk. However, that's not the only cost. Another thing to install, so the labor cost goes up. Another thing to support (and floppy drives are relatively highly failure prone) so support costs go up.
--" it is often difficult to get permission to install programs like the driver for a USB device (they do require a driver, right?)"
Not for anything like Windows 2000 or XP. I bought a nice 64 MB USB Flash drive at Fry's a couple weeks ago (for $10, mind). No drivers, just plug it in and copy. Don't know about 95 or 98, but I doubt you'll be getting one of the new Dells with those installed.
Also, about having the ports in the rear, every single USB flash device I've seen comes with a USB cable so you can plug it in the back and plug the drive to the cable in front.
As far as losing them goes, well, that may be a problem for you. I'd be far more worried about the data on the disc or drive than about the cost of the drive itself. The data is generally going to be worth more anyway. At least the USB flash ones allow some form of security/encryption.
--"So what exactly is the pressing need to get rid of these things?"
Depends on the system. My home machine has two of the larger external bays filled (two open) and only one floppy sized external bay (filled). It's a mid-tower, so drive space isn't a big issue.
However, there is a trend towards smaller PCs now. Shuttle, for instance, has been on this bandwagon. So has Dell, with the recent OptiPlex SX260, for instance.
--"so's the QWERTY keyboard layout, and I don't see people whining about that."
I see people whining about that ^_^
In any case, this is what the free market is all about. If enough people use floppies, Dell will put them back to keep sales.
Wraith
"What do you mean by 'RAM DISK is not an installation procedure' ?"
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:25
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The short story, Asher, is that very few people on this planet use only the latest, top-of-the-line hardware like you and your comp-sci buddies. In reality, as people have been repeatedly saying, not having a floppy is a major inconvenience. If you don't believe me, you should take a tour of a bank head office, which probably has more computers in it than nearly anywhere else I can think of, and see how many computers have the ability to do everything you say is just "keeping up with the times".
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Kontiki
The short story, Asher, is that very few people on this planet use only the latest, top-of-the-line hardware like you and your comp-sci buddies. In reality, as people have been repeatedly saying, not having a floppy is a major inconvenience. If you don't believe me, you should take a tour of a bank head office, which probably has more computers in it than nearly anywhere else I can think of, and see how many computers have the ability to do everything you say is just "keeping up with the times". |
Nobody is going to take the floppies away from the old computers.
The new ones typically don't need them. You're still given the option of installing one, it just doesn't come with one.
I really do have a hard time believing it'll be a major inconvenience to lots of people, seeing how cheap floppy drives are how there's ample expansion space for them, and especially considering how popular the internet is and USB in modern computers.
Yes, there are old computers that need floppies. Yes, you can still buy floppies and floppy drives. No, it should not come by default anymore. Yes, it's obsolete. And yes, it's a pain trying to salvage information from floppies. 
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
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quote:
Asher, talking to you about computers is akin to talking to CivNation about God. Y'all have your own ideas what is best for everybody else (despite their protestations, which you either ignore or claim is "crying"), and all the arguments and facts in the world isn't going to change either of your minds. |
John...there is simply no way you can argue that floppies are "best" for anyone. They're necessary for some people due to the issue of backwards compatibility, and it'll ALWAYS be like that until someone kicks the trend.
1.44MB is TINY, John. a 2-word Word document is 20KB right now, and in Office 11 that size will more than double when it moves to XML.
Floppies are a relic. A necessary relic for some, but a relic nonetheless. You can argue you still need one -- and good on you. Install one. Don't force everyone to use them like you're arguing everyone is forcing you to use them.
Worst comes to worst, you can get a USB-Floppy adapter and be happy in both worlds.
quote:
Without any experience in the real world of end-users in the corporate sphere, you have decreed we're all wrong. |
First, John, let me tell you how much it annoys me for people like yourself to go on and on about real world experience in a matter where it's completely unrelated.
Second, I understand some people may still need to use floppies, I haven't said you're wrong about that. Perhaps you need to pay closer attention to what's being said, or maybe you just need more real world experience in reading comprehension.
You can still get floppies and floppy drives. This move by Dell and other OEMs is a move to try to get people away from the floppy medium and onto more modern alternatives with far lower rates of data corruption, far higher data capacities and speeds, and move away from the relics of computer past. Yes, I'm "arrogant" enough to assert if we didn't have floppies it'd be better for everyone right now -- I don't see why it wouldn't be. If we didn't have floppies right now we wouldn't be having this conversation, people would be using 64MB USB drives instead of 1.44MB floppies.
quote:
Are you sure you're not some bizarre DL of Sava's? |
That's not how it works, John, I was here before Sava...
Last edited by Asher on 06-02-2003 at 03:57
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Wraith
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Austin, Texas, USA
Aug 1999
time: 23:25
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--"There's virtually no savings per unit,"
I'd disagree. I don't know how familiar you are with Dell's business model, but it's pretty simple. For destops they want to cut costs as much as possible, keep prices low, and sell in volume. An extra $5 to $10 a unit can be a big deal, and that's before support costs. Margins on desktops are pretty thin.
Besides, you can still order the bloody things. They're just not going to be part of the standard configuration for the desktop line.
--"you should take a tour of a bank head office,"
Floppies on the desktop is the least of the computer problems there...
--"Without any experience in the real world of end-users in the corporate sphere,"
Well, none of the corporations I've worked in have been all that attached to their floppies. Course, I've mostly worked in the tech industry, and before that drafting. AutoCAD files never were really floppy friendly.
The corporate sphere is actually the area I'd expect the least resistance to this. I don't know of any that lock down USB ports so the keydrives can't be used, and they are a lot more useful than floppies these days. And if they're buying any number of new systems they've probably got some sort of a network in place.
It's the home users who are keeping their older computers that I'd expect to see the resistance from. And they can click the "add a floppy" option.
Personally, I'd love to get rid of most of the legacy from my next machine. No PS2 port, no serial ports, no parallel port. Give me some USB and Firewire ports and a 10/100/1000 network port. A DVI connection for video and an optical out for audio. Get rid of the ATA in favor of SATA. Other than that, keep it quiet and fairly low power.
--" 1.44MB is TINY, John. a 2-word Word document is 20KB right now, and in Office 11 that size will more than double when it moves to XML. "
Heh. You're right, but the sad part is you seem proud of it ^_^ This is a sign of Microsoft bloat, ie. poor coding practicies. It's something to be dealt with and worked around (since they obviously have no intention of fixing it).
Wraith
Hardware /nm./: the part of the computer that you can kick.
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06-02-2003 02:27
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