09-02-2003 18:25									#31
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quote: I sincerely hope I wasn't the reason you suddendly felt all sleepy

no, I realized that arguing about a dead greek poet at 1:30AM is... well, lame.

Axi: I just name them like I see them. I only made my impression of the poem without previous knowledge. And from that poem, what I can see is that he's was a pessimist ( but that only means that he's didn't like what was going on at the time. ).
I can also see that he thinks that jews are bad.
Of course, we claim that the rest of the poem puts important things on the table, but that doesn't change the fact that the guy was prejudiced against jews.


Anyway, is he your national poet or something?

	10-02-2003 19:03									#32
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No the guy was totally overlooked for more than 50 years, because romantism went out of fashion by 1930. He, along with Kavafis, was overshadowed by a generation of surrealists, including Seferis and Elytis.

Only in the latest years have we begun to give him recognition.

Btw, a pessimist never ever becomes a national poet.

Although I have read most of his poems, this is the only mention of Jews I ever found...

	10-02-2003 19:08									#33
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quote: example of his writing: "So I went back to my hotel, and a student came to tell me she liked my books, so I ****ed her"

Incomplete. You forgot to say that he had only 3 bottles of wine that evening, so at least he was not so drunk as to not have an erection. However, the next morning he found out that he had a terrible headache and that he got pissed in his sleep. That didn't stop him from going gambling to the horsetracks though.

	11-02-2003 00:46									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Anyway, is he your national poet or something?

Nah, that would be Dionysios Solomos.
He's the guy who wrote the national anthem (158 verses long ) called Hymn to Liberty.

Speaking of which here's two different translations of the same first verses in Greek.

1.

quote: I know you by the sharp blade of your terrifying sword, I know you by the form you made taking the earth as victor lord. Sprung from Grecian bones scattered hallowed on every vale, with your old valor unshatterd, Liberty, hail to you, hail! Yes, but your sons, your offspring now fight with all their breath, and unseasingly are seeking either victory or death.

2.

quote: I shall always recognise you By the dreadful sword you hold, As the earth, with searching vision, You survey, with spirit bold. 'Twas the Greeks of old whose dying Brought to birth our spirit free. Now, with ancient valour rising, Let us hail you, oh Liberty!

As said, poetry is not translated but rewritten

	11-02-2003 00:53									#35
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quote: Originally posted by axi Incomplete. You forgot to say that he had only 3 bottles of wine that evening, so at least he was not so drunk as to not have an erection. However, the next morning he found out that he had a terrible headache and that he got pissed in his sleep. That didn't stop him from going gambling to the horsetracks though.

Yep. The guy is so ****ed up

	11-02-2003 01:25									#36
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didn't you just say that he was great at page 1?

	11-02-2003 01:32									#37
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err no...?!


unless you consider that great...

quote: BTW Bukowski is one sick old porn man. I read two of his books. There are all about screwing and a faux sence of "escaping" the microastiki (lower middle class?) mentality of security, order and conservative values. example of his writing: "So I went back to my hotel, and a student came to tell me she liked my books, so I ****ed her" And that theme (even written exactly the same) seems to encompass 90% of the 2 books of him I read. Better go with Vocacius - more diversity and more interesting Didn't know he wrote "poetry" too

	11-02-2003 01:36									#38
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Bukowsky!=Karyotakis

	11-02-2003 01:42									#40
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That doll in the background is about to kill the pretty underage girl, that looks like a boy in the picture, right?

	11-02-2003 01:45									#41
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Nope. It's her toy which she leaves behind but still haunts her and a symbol of her youngfulness

	11-02-2003 02:20									#42
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BTW if you think she looks like a boy you're the second pedophile after Drake in Poly


and now a sample by Elytis

quote: DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF CONSTANTINOS PALAEOLOGOS by Odysseas Elytis As he stood there erect before the Gate and impregnable in his sorrow Far from the world where his spirit sought to bring Paradise to his measure And harder even than stone for no one had ever looked on him tenderly - at times his crooked teeth whitened strangely And as he passed by with his gaze a little beyond mankind and from them all extracted One who smiled on him The Real one Whom death could never seize He took care to pronounce the word sea clearly that all the dolphins within it might shine And the desolation so great it might contain all of God and every waterdrop ascending steadfastly toward the sun As a young man he had seen gold glittering and gleaming on the shoulders of the great And one night he remembers during a great storm the neck of the sea roared so it turned murky but he would not submit to it The world's an oppressive place to live through yet with a little pride it's worth it. II Dear God what now Who had to battle with thousands and not only his loneliness Who? He who knew with a single word how to slake the thirst of entire worlds What? From whom they had taken everything And his sandals with their criss-crossed straps and his pointed trident and the wall he mounted every afternoon like an unruly and pitching boat to hold the reigns against the weather And a handful of vervain which he had rubbed on a girl's cheek at midnight to kiss her (how the waters of the moon gurled on the stone steps three cliff-lengths above the sea...) Noon out of night And not one person by his side Only his faithful words that mingled all their colors to leave in his hand a lance of white light And opposite along the whole wall's length a host of heads poured in plaster as far as his eyes could see "Noon out of night - all life a radiance!" he shouted and rushed into the horde dragging behind him an endless golden line And at once he felt the final pallor overmastering him as it hastened from afar. III Now as the sun's wheel turned more and more swiftly the courtyards plunged into winter and once again emerged red from the geranium And the small cool domes like blue medusae reached each time higher to the silverwork the wind so delicately worked as a painting for other times more distant Virgin maidens their breasts glowing a summer dawn brought him branches of fresh palm leaves and those of the myrtle uprooted from the depths of the sea Dripping iodine While under his feet he heard the prows of black ships sucked into the great whirlpool the ancient and smoked seacraft from which still erect with riveted gaze the Mothers of God stood rebuking Horses overturned on dumpheaps a rabble of buildings large and small debris and dust flaming in the air And there lying prone always with an unbroken word between his teeth Himself the last of the Hellenes!

	11-02-2003 03:37									#43
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quote: didn't you just say that he was great at page 1?

That comment was for me. I am a Bukowski fan. And yes, I like him exactly because he's decadent.

You're rather te patriotic type, aren't you paik? I was going to say that our national poet is Palamas and of course I could find a more meaningful sample of Elytis's poetry somewhere in "Aksion Esti" or in "O Ilios o Iliatoras"...

	11-02-2003 05:50									#44
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quote: Originally posted by axi You're rather te patriotic type, aren't you paik?

Ka8olou. Aplos me diaskedasei na tous trollaro (wow ti lexi!) pou kai pou

	11-02-2003 06:35									#45
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Ores ores to parakaneis...

	11-02-2003 06:37									#46
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Nai, exeis sigoura dikio. Kai pairno sto lemo mou ki allous

ostoso den nomizo oti einai ekseretika sovaro...
plaka einai kyrios; oi perissoteroi to xeroun.

	11-02-2003 06:40									#47
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autos eskalou den einai ki enas kyrios logos yparxis tou OTF?

omos einai axiosimioto oti otan milame sovara kaneis, i toulaxiston elaxistoi - oi gnostoi ypoptoi - trolaroun

	11-02-2003 06:49									#48
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quote: Nope. It's her toy which she leaves behind but still haunts her and a symbol of her youngfulness

Auto den to eixa prosexei...
- Ti ixo kanei to pipini?
- Kanei squick! - squick!

	11-02-2003 06:51									#49
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mpa, malakies egrafa, oti mou katebaine sto myalo

	11-02-2003 06:53									#50
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How about this,

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.