10-02-2003 04:07									#31
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...and the ugliest and stupidest children. Just check out the Hapsburgs.

	10-02-2003 04:08									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless Incest makes the purest blood.

I believe you're mistaking incest with dialysis.

	10-02-2003 04:08									#33
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A friend of mine once got bladdered at a family wedding and ending up rogering his Aunt. That was slightly disturbing, although he was remarkably unfazed by the experience.

	10-02-2003 06:14									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp A friend of mine once got bladdered at a family wedding and ending up rogering his Aunt. That was slightly disturbing, although he was remarkably unfazed by the experience.

uh oh, it's that 'a friend of mine' routine...

Any other secrets you'd like to share with us LatG?

	10-02-2003 07:28									#35
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger I believe you're mistaking incest with dialysis.

He's right, if he meant "the lack of genetic diversity."

	10-02-2003 09:11									#36
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger I believe you're mistaking incest with dialysis.

A race's blood is at its purest if everyone engages in incest.

	10-02-2003 09:24									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless Incest makes the purest blood.

Yes, but then you end up with people like Prince Charles.

	10-02-2003 09:28									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Yes, but then you end up with people like Prince Charles.

Lots of people seem to like the idea of keeping the blood of their race 'pure'. I'm wondering why they wouldn't resort to a method that can make the "purest" blood possible.

	10-02-2003 09:28									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless Lots of people seem to like the idea of keeping the blood of their race 'pure'. I'm wondering why they wouldn't resort to a method that can make the "purest" blood possible.

If racism is linked to stupidity, and if inbreeding reduces intelligence, then that's about the most poetic vicious circle I've ever seen.

	10-02-2003 09:30									#40
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You know, there probably are statistics on this subject, if only someone had the energy to do a google search on it......or maybe we're so lazy we'll just sit around on the back porch ****ging whichever sib suits our fancy.

	10-02-2003 09:38									#41
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I have no idea.

But I think sexual experimentation within families is far more common than people realise.

	10-02-2003 09:54									#42
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Rats. I should have retitled the poll to say "Consensual Incest", not just "sex" since coercion or rape could be considered.

No, this was just to gauge the perceptions of which gender had the more easy going attitude towards incest. My friend and I (and my brother...) believe that if an older sister made approaches to her younger brother, she would be more likely to succeed in securing his agreement than vice versa, precisely because there is less of a rape scenario fear.

This is not based on personal experience or experimentation, though.

	10-02-2003 10:02									#43
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Out of my arse, I would imagine that an older sister will have a greater chance of success seducing a younger brother, but there are more instances of older brothers seducing younger sisters.

	10-02-2003 10:14									#44
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I dunno - there's a lot of sexual experimentation that goes on within families which I'm not sure you would call it incest. It really depends on the ages and the relationship between the siblings rather than the gender I think. Its probably more likely where there is isolation and kids don't have anyone else to experiment on than siblings. Otherwise most kids would look outside the immediate family I suspect.

	10-02-2003 10:39									#45
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I've met (and slept with) three women who admitted to seducing their younger brothers. They were all older than me btw, one of them was a senior in college when I was in high school. I reminded them of their little brothers apparantly. Anyhoo, I voted female on male, certainly for "consensual" (ie non-violent) sex. Oh, and yes they were all damned fine company in bed.

	10-02-2003 11:43									#46
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quote: Oh, and yes they were all damned fine company in bed.

i suppose a little practice never hurt

	10-02-2003 17:50									#47
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Brothers masterbate brothers and have sex with each other all the time. Doesn't make them gay, but it does happen.

	10-02-2003 18:42									#49
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It's interesting to wonder what is the objection to sibling incest when the possibility of reproduction is removed. Since most objections to incest are on the basis of interbreeding, can one say that two brothers or sisters experimenting with each other (assuming consentual) is really a bad thing? Young teenagers are going to look to experiment with each other, siblings or not.

That being said, the very idea of fooling around with my brother makes me want to hurl violently.

	10-02-2003 19:14									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov That being said, the very idea of fooling around with my brother makes me want to hurl violently.

This is the objection you were looking for.

	10-02-2003 21:10									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Alexnm This is the objection you were looking for.

Ah, but that's a personal objection. Sleeping with a an ugly woman instills the same reaction in me, but I wouldn't call a guy who did so sick and wrong. I'd call him the American male norm.


Someone could quite possibly see no problem with fooling around with his sibling in a consentual manner. I want to know how we tell that person it's wrong without the "you'll have deformed children!" argument.

	10-02-2003 21:18									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov It's interesting to wonder what is the objection to sibling incest when the possibility of reproduction is removed. Since most objections to incest are on the basis of interbreeding, can one say that two brothers or sisters experimenting with each other (assuming consentual) is really a bad thing? Young teenagers are going to look to experiment with each other, siblings or not. That being said, the very idea of fooling around with my brother makes me want to hurl violently.

the reason why it is wrong is caught up in your last line

the relationship of sibling, like that of parent, is not one for sex

I mean, it would be the same as having sex with your dad, it is wrong for that relationship

Jon Miller

	10-02-2003 21:33									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller the reason why it is wrong is caught up in your last line the relationship of sibling, like that of parent, is not one for sex I mean, it would be the same as having sex with your dad, it is wrong for that relationship Jon Miller

As I said to Alex, the "grosses me out" factor isn't enough to justify condemning it. After all, how many of you guys are grossed out by the thought of participating in homosexual acts?

I don't think the parent/child analogy is that good, because in any parent/child relationship there is an inherently disparate power relationship. A parent can much more easily coerce an unwilling child into doing something than a sibling of comparable age can. I would think sibling couplings would be, by and large, consentual in nature.

As to that not being what the sibling relationship is designed for...not sure how that helps a moral case against sibling incest. If it isn't a question of procreation or establishing a longterm romantic relationship, that doesn't seem especially relevant.

	10-02-2003 21:44									#54
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DP

	10-02-2003 21:56									#55
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There was a study that showed that women are attracted to the smells of strangers and repelled by the smells of their family. (The opposite is true when they become pregnant.) So, even though an older sister could suduce her younger brother, most women are repelled by more than just the idea of it.

	10-02-2003 22:02									#56
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I think that the problem is that there is always a possiblility of pregnancy when sibs of opposite sex are involved. No birth control method is perfect. Vasectomy and tubal ligation come close, but since it can be assumed that we're talking about young people these methods generally aren't an option. You can't realistically consider the morality of incest in the absence of the possibility of reproduction.

You can however consider that an incestuous relationship would inherently give one sibling an unfair power advantage over the other within the family dynamic. You should also consider that since we're likely talking about children that even an age difference of 3 or 4 years represents a major difference in emotional and intellectual maturity, and there fore the older sib would have an unfair advantage over the younger.

	10-02-2003 22:20									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I think that the problem is that there is always a possiblility of pregnancy when sibs of opposite sex are involved. No birth control method is perfect. Vasectomy and tubal ligation come close, but since it can be assumed that we're talking about young people these methods generally aren't an option. You can't realistically consider the morality of incest in the absence of the possibility of reproduction.

You can in regards to same-sex couplings. Also, incestual behavior need not necessarily involve vaginal penetration. There is oral and manual sex, after all.

quote: You can however consider that an incestuous relationship would inherently give one sibling an unfair power advantage over the other within the family dynamic. You should also consider that since we're likely talking about children that even an age difference of 3 or 4 years represents a major difference in emotional and intellectual maturity, and there fore the older sib would have an unfair advantage over the younger.

This is more akin to what I was looking for, but I don't really buy it for closer siblings. My brother and I were 2 years apart, and there is no way he could have coerced me into doing anything with him. I think there is a lot of situational complexity here. If we're talking about two siblings who are near the same age masturbating together or engaging in oral sex, I can see it being totally consentual sexual experimentation.

I guess I don't see why anyone should feel ashamed if they engaged in such behavior with siblings.

	11-02-2003 00:41									#58
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I can imagine incests were common practice among early humans. Some clans would eventually figure out that it was not really a healthy thing, thus, these clans gained some evolutionary advantages over others. Maybe the Neanderthals went down because they didn't figure this out?