12-02-2003 09:36									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger IIRC, Jupiter is just a bit below the mass of a brown dwarf.

http://www-astronomy.mps.ohio-state...t2/mainseq.html

This gives the lowest mass of stars as 0.08 solar masses

Jupiter is about 0.001 solar masses

So 80X

	12-02-2003 10:18									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Sure, if you achieve 0K, you get superconductivity. However, to get superconductivity, you don't need to get to 0K, just sufficiently low temperatures will do.

this is true. it is regarded by many as the holy grail of science to discover a "room temperature' super conducter. The application of which would truely be revolutionary.

IIRC, there have been some ceramic senthysized that can maintain superconductivity at temeratures as high as -60 celsius, or somethn like that... pretty amazing, when you think about it

	12-02-2003 13:27									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger It had enough mass to provide a sufficiently dense environment. The original "spark" would be impossible to determine.

The initial spark that started the fusion process in the sun was the gravitational collapse of the gas that formed it. After igniting the reaction the pressure of the radiation generated by the fusion balanced the gravitational forces and a stable equilibrium emerged.

	12-02-2003 13:29									#64
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That wasn't a spark; that was a long, slow heating process.

The initial fire started burning well before the average energy was sufficient to ignite hydrogen burning.

	12-02-2003 13:48									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger That wasn't a spark; that was a long, slow heating process.

Thinking in astronimical time scales it was a spark.

	12-02-2003 15:44									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger The initial fire started burning well before the average energy was sufficient to ignite hydrogen burning.

If the hydrogen hadn't started burning, what would be the fuel for this fire?

	12-02-2003 16:01									#67
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell IIRC a quantum computer is a computer capable of creating an infinite number of parallel universes to each work on a seperate part of the problem. (To use a classical computing example, breaking an encryption with 1 processor at 2GHz is going to take ~4billion years, but with 2 only ~2bill, 4 only ~1bill, etc. The more power you have, the faster it is, and when you have infinite power, it's truly immediate. Hope this helps

But can it play huge maps with 24 civs with no waits between turns

	12-02-2003 19:20									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Quantum computing is a big steaming pile of crap.

not really.

just recently they used a prototype of a QC to calculate the primes of 15. simple for the beginning, but i proves that it's possible. but i reckon it will take at least 20 years for useful applications of QC

quanti for computing can be used in 2 ways:
- quantum memory: subatomar quantum particles have different so called "spins": spin 1, spin 2 and spin 1/2. the wierd thing is that for one kind of spin, the particles spins twice to reach the same state as before. source: "a brief history of time" by stephen hawkins. note: i can't remember the exact details. i read this iirc 8 years ago...
- quantum computing: nearly infinite parallism: see mrmitchell's post

	12-02-2003 19:24									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I have a question that bothered me for a very long time. It is a well known fact that the energy of the stars comes from nuclear fusion. It is said that when the stars condensed, the internal heat was high enough to trigger the beginning of the nuclear fusion process. The trigger of Hydrogen bombs is a Fission bomb, that generates such an enviroment. It is presumed that stars such as Jupiter didn't reach the needed critical mass in order to trigger the fusion reaction. What would happen if humans would launch a probe with a 20 Megatonn nuke onboard. The probe would slow down using shutes, and penetrate into Jupiter, and then go off. Would a new star be created?

even if possible, a 20 megaton nuke would never be enough. you might remember a few years ago a bead row of iirc 14 large meteors (one along would kill all life on earth) crashed onto jupiter. they were called "shoemaker/levy". each impact was a hundredfold multiple of 20 Mt.

	12-02-2003 19:27									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns The 0 Kelvin state is useful as you can store energy indefinately with no loss.

are you sure about that?
0° K has no energy at all, that's why the molecules don't move (no "brown's molecular movement").

100% superconduction can only be achieved at absolute zero. but current superconducters (e.g. some special ceramics) have a very efficient conduction ability. losses are close to 0.

	12-02-2003 23:21									#71
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf are you sure about that? 0° K has no energy at all, that's why the molecules don't move (no "brown's molecular movement"). 100% superconduction can only be achieved at absolute zero. but current superconducters (e.g. some special ceramics) have a very efficient conduction ability. losses are close to 0.

i think he meant elecric current loss due t resistance.

quote: spin 1, spin 2 and spin 1/2. the wierd thing is that for one kind of spin, the particles spins twice to reach the same state as before. source: "a brief history of time" by stephen hawkins. note: i can't remember the exact details. i read this iirc 8 years ago...

this is correct (im just finished reading the book like a week ago ). things of 1 spin, must rotate 360 degrees to be in the same orientation (think of this like a one headed arrow. to be able to be superimposed onitself, it must rotate completely once). things of 2 spin must rotate 180 degrees (this would be like a semetrical double headed aarow, it only has to rotate half a roation to be able to be superimposed on itself). things of 1/2 spin, like electrons, must make 2 complete rotations... this makes no sense to me...

	12-02-2003 23:28									#72
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Saberwolf:
1) I've said it myself.
2) It is enough, under the right pressure, that is not there on Jupiter.

quote: If the hydrogen hadn't started burning, what would be the fuel for this fire?

I'd presume that it egnited, and the went off, like in the scenario that frogger described in the previous pages.

	13-02-2003 00:46									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman things of 1/2 spin, like electrons, must make 2 complete rotations... this makes no sense to me...

yeah, it irritated me too... but believe me, there are a lot of things that don't make sense to me in science.

e.g. when my physics teacher told us that an electron has a diameter of 0 i doubted it. why?
an electron has a mass. no diameter means no volume. density = mass / volume --> x / 0 = infinite density ==> infinity gravity. no basicly each electron would be "heavier" than a black hole.
his answer: this is quantum physics, and not newtonian physics...

so basicly: accept it, it's too high for you anyway

	13-02-2003 00:48									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I want either a holodeck or a Matrix-style computer hookup so I can have sex with women all day.

i prefer the holodeck. there's a security protocol against dying and you don't need to look for a phone box to exit the world

	13-02-2003 04:41									#75
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rhenium-molybdenum alloys superconduct at 10K
Gadolinium at 11 K and below


a crystalline tin-niobium alloy is superconductive at very
low temperatures. Such magnets, made of tin-niobium wire, weigh just a few pounds and produce magnetic
fields that are comparable to that of a 100 ton electromagnet

just some interesting factoids.

About the boson states..........

I was once really high and thought I had Einstein's theory figured out. It made sense at the time. basically I started the premise that all matter is moving at the speed of light squared, I am going around the earth at a phenomenal rate, the Earth is going around the sun even faster, and the sun around the center of the galaxy at a humongous rate, which is hurtling through the universe at a truly astronomical rate, perhaps even revolving around an even larger mass that we cannot even detect.... but sadly I can't quite remember what conclusion I drew next......

Ok, basically what I am saying is 1) I wish I could afford college...... and 2) to me, the whole spinning aspect of "light" (everything is made of "spinning" [I am aware of electron clouds, moving so fast they actually are everywhere at once, creating mass, are they perhaps moving at the speed of light, and in so many directions to be called speed of light squared?] parts) is what gives "light" or "energy" it's matter-like qualities.

This of course all started on the thought that gravity is just a theory, and exactly what is gravitational force.... I mean, to say it's some magical force that draws mass to itself is not a scientific statement.




Another question..... what is the relationship between gluons, anti-gluons, and (pinkys)

BTW..... I'd read all about it myself..... except I want to release my mod by the 28th, and I am working on the civilopedia at the moment.... , and still have lots of graphical work to do.

	13-02-2003 04:51									#76
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quote: I was once really high and thought I had Einstein's theory figured out. It made sense at the time.

	13-02-2003 05:17									#77
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According to Superstring Theory, the basic particles are vibrations of the superstring, so fundamental particles have no size. The size of a proton, for example, is simply the smallest sphere that all 3 quarks in a proton fit in; the distance between the quarks is determined by the strong nuclear force. The electron is a fundamental particle, so it has no size, only a wave function that shows where one is most likely found.

	13-02-2003 05:22									#78
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NeOmega,
no, sorry... the E = mc^2 doesn't come from the electrons spinning (btw not the same as 'spin' mentioned by me and explained by Kramerman) around in the electron clouds.

this formula works for all matter without kinetic energy. this E is actually E 0 (the zero should be subscript, but HTML isn't allowed in this forum ) and is called 'rest energy'.

i never heard of pinkies. anti-gluons are probably the oposite of gluons which are sub-nucleus components. (atoms consist of the core (nucleUS) and electrons; the nucleUS consists of nucleONs (protons and neutrons) and nucleons are made up of quarks and gluons. these gluons 'stick' the quarks together.
but to be honest: this layer of physics is just waaaaay to complex for me to imagine.
it get's even more complicated when trying to understand these theories for solving the unified field theory (string theory with 11 dimensions wrapped up in each other and so on ).

	13-02-2003 05:30									#79
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speaking of understanding science while being high. it's not even so wrong. i had a great discussion with my two best friends while drinking 2 bottles of white vodka. we understood everything, but speaking got more and more difficult

but some other alcohol and science experiment turned out successful:
i was in a pub with the same friends as mentioned before (both bright) and we were discussing what attracts chicks. conclusion: looks, money and intelligence.
now, we're not bad looking, but neither were we the prettiest guys in the pub. money... well, the damn warmongering let our stock market value sink to a sad level.
that left us with the brains. so two of us went to the chalk board (meant for darts ) and did just a simple mathematical derivation... and guess what: success! ... they were really cute

ok, sorry for going off topic. just wanted to say that science pays

Last edited by sabrewolf on 13-02-2003 at 05:50

	13-02-2003 06:17									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger If the hydrogen hadn't started burning, what would be the fuel for this fire?

Note "average energy"

If I have an explosive mix of gases, then even if the temperature is below the ignition point you will eventually get an explosion.

	13-02-2003 06:26									#81
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf not really. just recently they used a prototype of a QC to calculate the primes of 15. simple for the beginning, but i proves that it's possible. but i reckon it will take at least 20 years for useful applications of QC quanti for computing can be used in 2 ways: - quantum memory: subatomar quantum particles have different so called "spins": spin 1, spin 2 and spin 1/2. the wierd thing is that for one kind of spin, the particles spins twice to reach the same state as before. source: "a brief history of time" by stephen hawkins. note: i can't remember the exact details. i read this iirc 8 years ago... - quantum computing: nearly infinite parallism: see mrmitchell's post

Big steaming pile of crap. The basic thory of storing and processing information via quantum numbers is fine. But the benefits are massively and consistently overstated.

	13-02-2003 06:28									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman i think he meant elecric current loss due t resistance. this is correct (im just finished reading the book like a week ago ). things of 1 spin, must rotate 360 degrees to be in the same orientation (think of this like a one headed arrow. to be able to be superimposed onitself, it must rotate completely once). things of 2 spin must rotate 180 degrees (this would be like a semetrical double headed aarow, it only has to rotate half a roation to be able to be superimposed on itself). things of 1/2 spin, like electrons, must make 2 complete rotations... this makes no sense to me...

It gets even weirder when you realise that when you make the measurement in a particular direction of the spin of a spin1/2 particle you can never get 0, only + or - 1/2

	13-02-2003 08:20									#83
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ok... so, um if I had a space ship going the speed of light, and it had white tail lights travelling away from the spaceship at the speed of light, what would be building up at the point where I started? A big ball of light?

	13-02-2003 08:22									#84
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No spaceship can travel at the speed of light.

	13-02-2003 08:41									#85
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yeah, and wouldn't white tail lights not really be tail lights too?

Bah I just read light always travels at a speed on it's own.......

	13-02-2003 08:47									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Note "average energy" If I have an explosive mix of gases, then even if the temperature is below the ignition point you will eventually get an explosion.

Yes, but if the average energy wasn't high enough, there couldn't be a fire because the reaction wouldn't be sustainable.

	13-02-2003 08:49									#87
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf this formula works for all matter without kinetic energy. this E is actually E 0 (the zero should be subscript, but HTML isn't allowed in this forum ) and is called 'rest energy'.

HTML does work.

E₀

Even nested: E₀₀

	13-02-2003 08:54									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Yes, but if the average energy wasn't high enough, there couldn't be a fire because the reaction wouldn't be sustainable.

But it would be as long as the reaction released enough energy to heat up the surrounding nuclei to the point where they could undergo the reaction. Which doesn't require the average energy be as high as the activation energy.

Would you like a stat mech class?

	13-02-2003 12:16									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger HTML does work. E0 Even nested: E00

cool, thought it was deactivated. but maybe the only in the non-OT-forums

	13-02-2003 12:35									#90
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quote: Originally posted by NeOmega ok... so, um if I had a space ship going the speed of light, and it had white tail lights travelling away from the spaceship at the speed of light, what would be building up at the point where I started? A big ball of light?

in case of the sound waves this is right. if a plane is travelling at the speed of sound straight towards you, you won't hear it coming. and then, all of a suthen those soundwaves will hit you with a very loud bang.
in the aircraft is flying faster than sound, you'll actually have the feeling it's flying backwards

however, the speed of light is something totally different. it's the same from every point of view. this is totally wierd and very difficult to explain for me.

but let me bring a famous example:
3 people in a train driving close to the speed of light. 1 in the middle, 1 on each end. the middle guy suddenly flashes with a lantern. now in common sense the light travelling in the same direction of the train will take longer to get to the end (because the train is moving "away") than the light going in the oposite direction.
but this is proved wrong by the theory of relativity. the speed of light is the same for every relative position. the flash seen from the ends will be the same length and arrive at the same time, no matter which end.

damn, i can't explain it here, sorry...

but anyway. time does "change" while going faster and faster. the nearer to the speed of light, the slower your time looks like from outside. (note: this has been experimentaly proven to be true!). Dt' = Dt * SQR(1-(v²)/c(v²))


oh... got to go now. if someone cares to explain it in better words, please have a go

edit: corrected tags