12-02-2003 21:10									#31
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Actually I think the starting cash is VERY significant. Research biogenetics as your first tech, and you can have two recycling tanks in your first two bases by year 2107. This has a huge effect on your early game economy... that extra food can double your food production if you don't have any 2 food tiles. Morgan can expand much faster than any of the hybrid/builder factions because of this, Yang can come close but Morgan's research also helps in early expansion (IE having wealth as fast as possible)

Two free recycling tanks 10 years earlier essentially nets you the 60 minerals that you pay for with a rush buy and 60 factor of production points. That much turn advantage in the very early game can make a significant difference over the course of a game.

	12-02-2003 21:25									#32
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The moment you can build units with Clean Reactors, Morgan's -1 support easily disappears, since you have more than enough energy credits to rush-build for the extra required minerals or upgrade your current bunch of Formers and garrison units.

And if you're so focused on the extra mineral cost for a unit, just run Wealth. It's +1 Industry makes units and infrastructure 10% cheaper, which makes you hardly feel any impact of the support penalties.

And believe me, you can easily live with the -2 Morale if you're playing Morgan right.

	13-02-2003 01:35									#33
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Not if you have a jungle-Hive nearby

	13-02-2003 01:54									#34
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Alright, you're right there. I'll hand you that one :P Chances are slim when playing with 70-90% ocean coverage though

	13-02-2003 06:18									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit You cannot offset anything if you cannot even build more than a scout and a former per base

As Hendrik points out, Biogenics and your starting 100 ECs can get you recycling tanks out on turn 6-8. With those extra minerals I'm getting more population, building more pods and learning more tech. Leaving out the blind luck of pod drops, your typical city can expect to produce 4 nuts, 2 minerals and 1 energy. With 2 cities planted that's an excess of 4 nuts per turn, 4 minerals per turn, and 2 energy collected. If you're Yang, that's down to 1 energy collected, thanks to your econ penalty. If you're Morgan, by 2110, you're collecting 5 nuts in each base, 3 minerals and 3 energy, thanks to extra energy in your base square. So with 2 bases planted, that's 6 excess nuts, 6 minerals and 6 energy.

That's right, it's only turn 8, and I'm already getting 50% more nutrients, 50% more minerals, and 3 times as much energy. For this priviledge, I'm perfectly willing to suck up the 1 mineral tax on my units.

quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit Not if you have a jungle-Hive nearby

Please. Even the AI gets a little scary when it starts in the Jungle.

	13-02-2003 14:30									#36
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Exact- a LITTLE

	14-02-2003 09:15									#37
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I prefer The Builder People, which, with proper management, can be any of the SMAC-7.

	14-02-2003 09:45									#38
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I like the Infectous Virus' (aka Hive)

	21-02-2003 17:38									#39
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University - so much it gets boring

	21-02-2003 20:21									#40
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My vote goes for the Inner Party people

B...B...B...B...B...B...B...B...B...B...B...B...B...B...B...B...B...B...

Damn it, I gotta read 1984 again.

	22-02-2003 00:31									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit You cannot offset anything if you cannot even build more than a scout and a former per base

But you can always build more than that-- With the extra cash you build a crawler and crawl a few minerals.

No matter what faction I play, I always have a few bases that produces more than 10 minerals. Support is a concern early but once crawlers are in play it reduces itself to a minor annoyance. The fact that you might have a mineral or two less going toward production compared to other factions is no big deal if that same base produces an "extra" bunch of energy.

	22-02-2003 00:48									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Hendrik Actually I think the starting cash is VERY significant. Research biogenetics as your first tech, and you can have two recycling tanks in your first two bases by year 2107. This has a huge effect on your early game economy... that extra food can double your food production if you don't have any 2 food tiles. Morgan can expand much faster than any of the hybrid/builder factions because of this, Yang can come close but Morgan's research also helps in early expansion (IE having wealth as fast as possible) Two free recycling tanks 10 years earlier essentially nets you the 60 minerals that you pay for with a rush buy and 60 factor of production points. That much turn advantage in the very early game can make a significant difference over the course of a game.

Interesting. What of the lost turn advantage to having formers later by virtue of researching ecology second (or third?) rather than first? The same 8 rows for the two recycling tanks would be enough for four formers. (or three, allowing two rows rows worth of absorbtion of the extra support costs until the terraforming incereased mineral output enough to provide the mineral support. Does the benefit of two extra nuts offset what I see as a net loss of turn advantage in production? I would think sometimes yes, sometimes no.

	22-02-2003 03:49									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Mongoose Interesting. What of the lost turn advantage to having formers later by virtue of researching ecology second (or third?) rather than first? The same 8 rows for the two recycling tanks would be enough for four formers. (or three, allowing two rows rows worth of absorbtion of the extra support costs until the terraforming incereased mineral output enough to provide the mineral support. Does the benefit of two extra nuts offset what I see as a net loss of turn advantage in production? I would think sometimes yes, sometimes no.

I think in terms of net Factors of Production, the extra nut, extra mineral and extra energy are easily worth putting off the start of your terraforming for a few turns.

Recycling Tanks return dividends on invested build time immediately, whereas formers take additional turns to actually build improvements, and those improvements may or may not actuallly increase yield, for example, if you're in an area with a couple of rainy squares, you'll be harvesting those and leaving your forests fallow in any case.

Also, the time you're spending building formers, I'm cranking out colony pods, so you'll wind up having fewer bases with more roads and trees, and I'll have more bases with tanks.

If you're really on fire about getting formers fast, you can always take centauri ecology immediately after biogenics, but I've spent hours testing the various openings, and the biogenics/industrial economics start _invariably_ winds up ahead when playing Morgan. And not by a little.

	24-02-2003 05:48									#44
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Most of the times I'm one of the money people, but recently I have discovered the joy of the Dark Red Research-Hating Pseudo-Marxists i.e. the drones.
Just start out with a large landmass and spread like a disease all over the planet...

Besides, I kinda like Domai's "viva la revolución" attitude


(hey, I think I've fallen in love with these smileys )

	02-03-2003 11:17									#45
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Believers. They eat the Spartans for breakfast.
Money's nice, but what does Morgan do when one of the warmongers come knocking on his door? Even he can't buy off EVERYBODY...

	02-03-2003 22:11									#46
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Once Morgan has Industrial Automation and comparable weapon tech to back it up, he can field just an impressive army as any other faction. I agree with you that Miriam is the strongest warmonger faction, and that once she has tech parity (not too hard with judicious use of probe teams) she's unholy difficult to stop. But as the many Miriam detractors from my 'Least Favorite Faction' will point out, youre very vulnerable while you catch up in tech.