14-02-2003 07:29									#31
	Put an end to popups!

This is a copy of the PM I sent to Trip:

quote: Suggestions before the end of your turn. 1) Don't forget to send us Mysticism. 2) If you are going to abandon Regio move you Spearman out of contact with ND's swordsmen so they won't attack you, otherwise I would move both Spearmen into Regio and move the worker north towards Campus Felix (no sense letting ND get the worker AND the city). If you move your Spearmen two different directions it might cause ND to split their forces. 3) Transfer you money to someone and click accept, otherwise it will take two turns to stash your cash. Make sure you make arrangements to get the money back after the crisis though. ; ) I wouldn't commit your settler to the Iron just yet as if ND takes Regio they just turn and march on that new city. Anyway, those are my suggestions, good luck. ALTERNATE SUGGESTION: Before you end your tend send GoW the following THREE SEPARATE TRADE PROPOSALS and then click accept on each one before sending. Make each one separate so we can negotiate and based on what we agree to I will only accept the deals agreed upon my you and me: 1) Give us Mysticism. (Make this the first one, as I will accept this as previously agreed to in our tech trade treaty) 2) Gift us Campus Felix (There is no way you are going to defend this as any units need to go to your capital, this is the least valuable city to you and would do my team more benefit that yours). 3) (OPTIONAL) Send us your treasury. MAKE SURE TO CLICK ACCEPT BEFORE SENDING THEM. Otherwise it would take two turns to complete and the assets in question may be in ND hands before our agreement goes through. I will discuss with my team and as we have no Mutual Defense treaty with anyone, we may come to a deal before our next turn where we would immediately declare war on ND in return for some combination of offers 2 & 3. This is wholly at your discretion, we will by no means hold you at fault for not offering 2 or 3 as that requires an immense amount of faith upon your team.

The idea being if we get them to make a good offer to declare war on ND, we can discuss this with ND and accomplish virtually all of our war goals without having to risk troops.

All ND would have to do is take Regio (as they are already planning) and march on the capitol while Lux would only have 3 warriors left in existence.

	14-02-2003 08:31									#32
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Lux will expect us to declare a real war with ND.

If we agree to a military aliance...are we not breaking our word if we tell ND its only a fake war ?

GF... Can you post a map of cities (and their names) and resources (iron) ?
It is difficult to follow the above with words only...(I did get the sav last night, but I am at work now, and I dont know where Lux's Iron is.)


Another suggestion....
If Lux refuses to gift us the city on favourable terms...

"Trip, ND will take your cities, and become the major player on our continent. The GOW cannot let this happen.
However, we do not have the forces to take on ND. They will destroy us.
Our only option is to join with ND, and attempt to take your cities as well, (before ND gets them).
ie...We will declare war on you, and with GOW & ND at war, you will be eliminated from the game.

Your only option is to Gift us (city) & (cash/workers). Upon receipt of this, we will remain nuetral, and not war with you. We believe we can convince ND to leave you your capital, and you will survive to plot your revenge on ND.....(Something we would be happy to discuss with you once we have enough troops)"

ie...we make demands if they dont agree to GF "peaceful" solution


A third option is asylum, and their complete surrender. But after reading the chat log, I am not sure if Trip is "stable" enough to let join our team ? He is living in a dream world to think GOW & RP will rush to his defense.

	14-02-2003 12:08									#33
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The main thing I want out of this, is Felix. Its in a nice location and we can defend it. The other thing I want is for Lux to stick around. Having another player to kick around is great (and even better if he is a non-player).

	14-02-2003 20:50									#34
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Message from Borc :

Note, that I sent them a copy of the chat log from the 3-way meeting. It was never said I couldn't forward it, or to keep it secret from ND (Guess they assumed that didn't they) but I thought it would definitely strengthen our position with them.

quote: Dear GhengisFarb, Thanks 1000 times for sending us the log. it shows us again that you are brave allies and i am very proud to be your ambassador! We will keep it top secret and there will be no leak! Very soon (if Trip will stop sitting on the save i think we should have a new chat GoW-ND to discuss the situation. there are many interesting details to discuss for both of us Togas told us that there would be a defensive alliance pact between rp and lux until 1700 BC, and he asked us to wait with the attack for exactly one turn. this defensive pact never was mentioned in the log and so we think togas only wants to win time. Anyway - before we don't have the save and before we don't see if Lux has killed our scout (what would be the best solution because they would have started the war then) we will not negotiate with with lux or rp i think. with the next save darekill will give you more info. I would like to offer you a present! we saw that you have many black tiles on your map of the lux area. So please take our map. maybe we can use the map for our warroom and for future border discussions. good luck, Borc

	14-02-2003 21:55									#35
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SWEET!!!

So ND bought into the decption idea? There were some VERY good ideas in that log.

What did they say about Lux gifting the cities (which is a viable possibility)?

	14-02-2003 22:42									#36
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I just had a little chat with Trip (I couldn't log it, sorry)

He is going to try to contact GF about getting help from the spear in Dread. I told him that with our help that he just might live. I said that I was going to try to convince GF to help him, and even threaten him with a No-Con if he didn't help (Like I would ever do that to you, GF ). I also mentioned briefly the Felix situation.

Just trying to give you a heads up GF!

	14-02-2003 23:39									#37
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by donegeal I just had a little chat with Trip (I couldn't log it, sorry) He is going to try to contact GF about getting help from the spear in Dread. I told him that with our help that he just might live. I said that I was going to try to convince GF to help him, and even threaten him with a No-Con if he didn't help (Like I would ever do that to you, GF ). I also mentioned briefly the Felix situation. Just trying to give you a heads up GF!

Trip disbanded Regio (no word of this to anybody, Trip didn't even want me to tell the rest of GoW) and will not give us 1 gold for our help, let alone Camp Felix. He wants to take our spearman from Dread and the capitol to fight the swordsmen stack from ND.

	15-02-2003 01:36									#38
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From Trip:

quote: I did all I possibly could to negotiate with Neu Demogyptica, and got a response saying that nothing will stop them from declaring war. I was very cordial and open-minded, but Darekill stated that war is inevitable next turn. Please do not disclose the following information to anyone, as Darekill asked me not to publish it: Neu Demogyptica is in this for the long run. Their ultimate goal - as per Darekill himself - is to destroy Lux Invicta at any cost. This is a total war, and must be treated as such. Let us hope that GoW, RP and Lux can work together to destroy ND before something awful happens. That is all. Trip.

	15-02-2003 02:25									#39
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Also from Trip:

quote: Spearman in Dreadnautica Usage of this unit would be a great help in stopping Neu Demogyptica. Lux kindly requests that you might send it south to help for the main fight. Trip, King, Lux Invicta

When do we plan on revealing our plans to attack Lux? Do we just say no, and then attack them to start the war?

	15-02-2003 03:27									#40
	Got spare money?

Lux is not going to give us anything for free.

We may have to state our real intentions very soon.

Put our demands on the table, or we will enter the war with ND against them.

He must be made to understand that this will guarantee his destruction if he allows this to happen.

We have no choice but to do this. ND will take all of Lux cities and become the major power on the continent if we dont.
The only way we can stop this is to take Lux cities ourselves....they either give them to us, and they have a chance of surviving, or we take them and we guarantee their destruction.

In return for giving us what we want, we could offer
- To talk ND out of total destruction ?
- Help to rebuild
- Excile if they are destroyed, but they must allow us to take their capital.

Regs

	15-02-2003 04:17									#41
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Any negotiations with ND, must include us getting that Iron site.

We may need to build a settler and make a claim on it.

	15-02-2003 13:31									#42
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It told straight up that our entering the war against ND is a foolhardy move on our part and that if he wanted us to join him he had to give us Camp Felix and fulfill the treaty they signed to give us Mysticism once they acquired it (they have been in violation of this treaty for several turns now).

I told him GoW would not declare war on ND until we had Camp Felix in our possesion (Trip plans on abandoning it).

	15-02-2003 15:52									#43
	Got spare money?

We want
1. Camp Felix
2. Lux's Iron.

Most likely, Lux would rather abandon Camp Felix than gift it to us.
If we dont get a favourable reply from GF's latest PM, then I suggest we step up the threat... "Give us Fort Felix, or we will join ND in the war against you".

I dont think that will work either..(I know I would rather fight to the death).
So therefore, we help ND destroy Lux with our feeble army of two horsemen. If ND still wants our help, we will really want to negotiate territory which will include that Iron Resource. Then we just pray that we get to the Lux capital before ND, and have a chance of taking it.

Can our 2 horsemen do it ? Probably not if Lux is retreating all of their units. It will take both us and ND to kill them. We just have to hope we do the final kill.

Or perhaps ND will gift us the city ?
They sure do owe us after all the inteligence we have been providing them.

Perhaps ND will pay us with....
1. Territory that includes the Iron
2. ND's Capital

For that, they can direct our 2 horsemen anywhere they want. Suicide them if they want

Regs

Last edited by Hot_Enamel on 15-02-2003 at 16:09

	15-02-2003 16:10									#44
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Jigsaw Map ...



{edit} - The pics on my ISP in Australia....let me know if it wont load.

Last edited by Hot_Enamel on 15-02-2003 at 17:38

	15-02-2003 18:06									#45
	Tired of ads?

Trip offered us nothing! He once again violated that is continued to BREAK their treaty with us by not giving us Mysticism.

I think we should declare war on Lux this turn.


Vox has once again stalled giving us contact with GS, I think we should inform them that we either have/possess contact with GS at the beginning of our next turn or we will declare war on them as well, and bring Roleplay into the war on Vox (We can't actually do anything but this would leave them no one to trade with.

IF I can get Trip to give us Felix next turn and hold ND off long enough for a Vox Warrior to take their capital from the rear. Are we prepared to allow a FEW of their members to join our team?

If so, which ones.


I am planning to send this message to Darekill:

quote: I have stretched ambiguity as far as I think possible, the chat log I dould give you because NO ONE every said it was secret or that I couldn't send it to you. We NEVER agreed to help Lux or not to declare war on Lux but they gave us info anyway as they ASSUMED we would help them (why??) but WE DID AGREE TO DECLARE WAR ON LUX THE TURN YOU DID, so we will not fail to honor that agreement.

Note, that good relations with ND could help us in the intersite Demo game!

	15-02-2003 18:24									#46
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Help who GF ??

You are with the CDG team

	15-02-2003 19:19									#47
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Make last demand of Felix... if he refuses... Kill'em. Declare.

	15-02-2003 20:55									#48
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Updated Citysite Suggestions, dotted line is the proposed border deal we sent to ND.

	16-02-2003 10:08									#49
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GF -
If ND agree to this, we have done well.
This is by far, the choice land.
Wines, Spice & Gems
(With a possible monopoly on wines)

We also get Iron & horse
My only concern, is that we will be in a cultural war with ND to retain our Iron....ND is religious & have a jump on us with a temple built already.
Should we consider moving our "iron" city 1 tile NW to ensure we dont lose it ?

Regs

	16-02-2003 12:03									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel GF - If ND agree to this, we have done well. This is by far, the choice land.

ND hasn't agreed to this. This is simply a proposed play of city placement objectives.

quote: Wines, Spice & Gems (With a possible monopoly on wines) We also get Iron & horse My only concern, is that we will be in a cultural war with ND to retain our Iron....ND is religious & have a jump on us with a temple built already. Should we consider moving our "iron" city 1 tile NW to ensure we dont lose it ?

Not really, if you notice our city and ND's city radius don't overlap, the iron is outside their city radius. Regardless of cultural strength a tile will ALWAYS be assigned to a city whose radius it would lie in before being assigned to a civ who does have a city radius that includes the tile.

The citysite in question should buiild a temple asap as its first build.

	16-02-2003 14:33									#51
	Full PM-box? Change here!

A couple of suggestions:

1) "City of Gold" one tile SE of the gold hill.

2) Move the city NW of the gold hill N one tile to the "Bay of Pigs".

3) "Equine Hills" city (the one we just made ) NW one tile (adds an aquaduct, but opens room for an entire additional city).

4) "Brandywine Plains" one tile NE, across the river.

5) Ask for ND northern most city. It will make BOTH our borders considerably less. Tell them that we beging discussing a permanate friendship with them as I describe below if they do this. Consider letting them have the southern most city site on the East coast.

Thats it for map/border suggestions, but I still have more ideas.

ND has proven to be a wonderful ally. Perhaps we should consider making them a permanate ally. We give them maps when ever they ask for them. They give us maps when ever we ask for them. We ALWAYs gift new techs with each other whenever the techs are finished. Permanent Wine trade to them. Permanent Mutual Aid. We consult each other before tech trades are made with the other teams. Worker requests. Hell! Lets trade all our workers so neither of our work forces cost us anything to maintain! Yes we are Industrious so a 2 for 1 deal might need to be worked out (maybe a 3 for 2 deal because, although our workers are faster, they would need to spend 20 shields and two pop points for every 10 shields and 1 pop we spend).
Suggestions?

	16-02-2003 14:34									#52
	Got spare money?

Oops... maybe start talking to them about the destruction of RP....

	16-02-2003 14:39									#53
	Inflate your Upload Space

Damn...one more in a row...

Palace/Forbidden Palace discussion should commence once ND and us have agreeded on a border. I have already been looking. The site where Invictus is now would make a great spot for the Forbidden Palace depending on how large we expect out empire to grow. If we decide to not build the FP and wait until we see further plans for our team, then a the best spot for a one capitol empire at this time would be camp Felix.

	16-02-2003 18:49									#54
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Currently, I have the save and am trying to iron out a deal with GS for Horseback Riding.

	16-02-2003 19:41									#55
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Careful dealing with the brain box, GF...