11-02-2003 08:44									#31
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Ozawa- he's a popular guy up Boston-way! I always admired his hair too.

He is the only one of these conductors whom I have seen live in concert. He's too flashy--distracts from the music. But otherwise a fine conductor.

	11-02-2003 08:55									#32
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Thanks for the cool pics Bory.

	11-02-2003 08:59									#33
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Who do you think looks more frightening? Bohm or Reiner? I'd say Reiner--he looks kinda evil.

	11-02-2003 09:09									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Some might take issue with his wholesale rewriting of pieces of music to suit his fancy.

I do, but that doesn't stop me liking his Mahler 2, Shostakovich 5 and Firebird Suite to name a few.

	11-02-2003 09:11									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I do, but that doesn't stop me liking his Mahler 2, Shostakovich 5 and Firebird Suite to name a few.

See, I don't. While there is something to be said for faithfulness to the score, I prefer the conductor taking a piece and making it his own statement. I suppose that's why I prefer Furtwangler.

	11-02-2003 10:16									#36
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Gustav Mahler

Attachment: mahler_1.jpg
This has been downloaded 29 time(s).

	12-02-2003 01:50									#37
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It's odd that, historically, most of the great composers have not been the best of conductors. Stravinsky was notoriously bad at conducting his own music. Beethoven, naturally, couldn't conduct once his deafness began to set in. Brahms allowed the tympanist to run roughshod over the first performance of "Ein Deutsches Requiem," resulting in some boos and hisses from the audience.

At the same time, many of the great conductors were unsuccessful as composers. Furtwangler wrote a few pieces of symphonic music during is exile in Switzerland, but nothing spectacular. Andre Previn's works have also been relatively uninspiring. Of this century's great composer/conductors, only Mahler and Bernstein really stand out.

	12-02-2003 02:20									#38
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I was reading a little on the issue of why no-one recorded Mahler. Some think that he was too "controversial" and the conservative element was hostile to him.

	12-02-2003 02:36									#39
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Well, being a Jew in 19th-century and early 20th-century Europe wasn't fashionable, no. Much of his music very much relies on Yiddish traditional music, and his symphonies make an interesting amalgam of staunch German idioms and Jewish folk music. It also expresses a great deal of the angst he felt at being a Jew in a Christian world that in many ways despised him.

	12-02-2003 02:43									#40
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Leonard Bernstein because the others are a mystery to me

	12-02-2003 02:52									#41
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You've never heard of Toscanini?

	12-02-2003 03:00									#42
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Leopold Stokowski, obviously. Because Bugs Bunny doesn't go around imitating just anyone ya know.

	12-02-2003 03:04									#43
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DL!



(the above was danced to the Sabre Dance by Kachachturian)

	12-02-2003 03:14									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov You've never heard of Toscanini?

The name sounds kind of familiar, but not very...

	12-02-2003 03:40									#45
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ESA-PEKKA!

	12-02-2003 04:57									#46
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Salonen is a bit of a weirdo (hated his Mahler 4).

I don't share the negative appraisal of Karajan, his Richard Strauss recordings from the early seventies are very good IMHO.

It's nice to see Barbirolli on the list - the owner of the record store I patronised back in NZ played under him a few times. I find I have many recordings by him.

Ditto Reiner.

What about Sir Thomas Beecham and Sir Adrian Boult? Kubelik (his Mahler 1 has no peer).

Again - I violently disagree about Stravinsky.

	12-02-2003 05:31									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov You've never heard of Toscanini?

I actually have a few old records of Toscanini. Emperor concerto is one.

He was good! Very good!

	12-02-2003 05:37									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov DL! (the above was danced to the Sabre Dance by Kachachturian)

He may be a DL, but he's got a good point.

ACK!

	12-02-2003 09:00									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I actually have a few old records of Toscanini. Emperor concerto is one. He was good! Very good!

RCA has been releasing digitally remastered CDs of his symphonic works, and they are absolutely wonderful additions to any classical library. The recordings with the NBC Studio Orchestra have amazing clarity, and except for a slight tinniness to the strings, you would be amazed they were recorded in the early 1950s.

The Brahms symphonies are a steal at $15 for all four on two discs. Toscanini leads the third symphony so well that its hair-raising.

Re Karajan: He was at his best in the late Romantic repetoire, such as Wagner, Mahler, Bruckner and Strauss. But he fares much worse in earlier classical works, Italian opera and pretty much anything not German. I dislike his Beethoven and Brahms, and his Mozart is appalling. He conducts Mozart like he conducts Wagner, which doesn't work. Karajan's stabs at Verdi are also far too loud and overdone in terms of the orchestra. He also seemed to choose unflattering singers for roles in opera (e.g. his Don Carlos). Of great surprise is that his Decca recording from the 1970 Salzburg Festival of Boris Godunov isn't that good, either, despite a stellar cast that included Nicolai Ghauirov, Martti Talvela and Galina Vishnevskaya. He takes ploddingly slow tempos and the whole thing seems uninspired.

Besides, Strauss is one of those conductors of whom one can find him conducting his own works, and he's damn good, too!

	12-02-2003 09:07									#50
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Leopold! Leopold! [/dramatic whisper]
Hey Boris, what online places could I find this easily in to buy?

	12-02-2003 09:09									#51
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Leopold! Leopold! [/dramatic whisper] Hey Boris, what online places could I find this easily in to buy?

To find what?

	12-02-2003 09:27									#52
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that 4-disc toscanini you said was "hair-rising"
I want to see if it really is.

	12-02-2003 09:30									#53
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 that 4-disc toscanini you said was "hair-rising" I want to see if it really is.

http://www.towerrecords.com/product.asp?pfid=1541329

	12-02-2003 09:31									#54
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sweet! thankness

	12-02-2003 09:33									#55
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The sound clips on the site do not reflect the quality of the recordings well at all.

	12-02-2003 09:35									#56
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I'll keep that in mind

	12-02-2003 09:45									#57
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Rastropovich has been omitted.

	12-02-2003 09:50									#58
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Rastropovich has been omitted.

Too narrow. Maybe if he did something besides late Romantic Russian music...

	12-02-2003 11:22									#59
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He cannot be narrow. He conducted the National Symphony Orchestra itself!

	12-02-2003 21:26									#60
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Yeah...in Romantic Russian repetoire, no doubt!

Actually, Rostropovich deserves mention, as does another overlooked Russian, Valery Gergiev.

In fact, here are more potential names for the list:

Richard Strauss
John Eliott Gardner
Pierre Boulez
Fritz Busch
Sir Colin Davis
Victor de Sabata
Rudolf Kempe
Erich Kleiber (Carlos's father)
Hans Knappertsbusch
Josef Krips
Erich Leinsdorf
Sir Charles Mackerras
Dimitri Mitropoulos
Wolfgang Sawallisch
Thomas Schippers
Tullio Serafin