17-02-2003 08:34									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 quote: The treaty which we sent you with certain terms, and you sent back with changes that we never agreed to is another matter umm? Do you mind elaborating?

We agreed to a simple treaty in chat, Trip wrote all kinds of clauses and reworded all of the passages so it did the exact opposite of what the two teams agreed to in chat.

We simply eliminated the built in loopholes and tricks that Trip had built in and agreed to it, Lux was so impressed with their own supposed cleverness they never bothered to see that we had corrected it.

	17-02-2003 08:36									#62
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb We agreed to a simple treaty in chat, Trip wrote all kinds of clauses and reworded all of the passages so it did the exact opposite of what the two teams agreed to in chat.

Are you referring to the one clause that said we could trade HBR to RP for Writing if you didn't?

quote: We simply eliminated the built in loopholes and tricks that Trip had built in and agreed to it, Lux was so impressed with their own supposed cleverness they never bothered to see that we had corrected it.

You deleted one line and assumed there was a consensus. Shame on you.

	17-02-2003 08:40									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Trip You deleted one line and assumed there was a consensus. Shame on you.

We didn't assume anything, both you and BFM pm'd us later to confirm that the treaty was valid.

You've been so busy trying to plot and counterplot that you don't even remember which plot was which. ROFLMAO

Not that it's all that important now, you've successfully irritated all the civs that you shared borders with to the point that their marching on your cities to watch you sack them yourself.

	17-02-2003 08:47									#64
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I doubt I'm the only one tired of hearing such repetitive drivel.

No matter, we will see who has the last laugh soon enough...

	17-02-2003 09:26									#65
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more....More.....MORE !!!!!

Congratulations on successfully hijacking the ND Foreign Affairs thread

Last edited by Hot_Enamel on 17-02-2003 at 09:32

	17-02-2003 13:35									#66
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All this argument over whether or not you cheated your treaties is somewhat irrelevant. I seriously doubt that treaties between your two teams were ever based upon trust between the two of you in the first place (if they were, that was a SERIOUS error in judgement, now wasn't it ).

From the look of it, both parties entered into these agreements believing the other side was trying to screw them over (and likely were right)... given that you both already fully understood this, why would the act of them actually screwing you over be surprising?

Afterall, you were expecting that to happen all along...

	17-02-2003 13:57									#67
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lol

Oh man this is good stuff.
[strike]
GOW may think this is all pretty funny, but wait till they see what is hidden up our large sleeve. Mwhahaha.
[/strike]

Whoops, I didn't say anything....

Last edited by jordie on 17-02-2003 at 14:02

	17-02-2003 15:21									#68
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A veteren warrior instead of a regular one ???

	17-02-2003 16:23									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Afterall, you were expecting that to happen all along...

True, but we didn't expect them to screw us over when it wasn't in their interests to do so........

	18-02-2003 02:40									#70
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb True, but we didn't expect them to screw us over when it wasn't in their interests to do so........

Neither did other people. It all depends on different people's skewed sense of "self-interest".

	19-02-2003 03:03									#71
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it doesnt matter if GoW invented a stupid reason to goto war. It is stupid and is so hypocritical, but i think everyone can see that. All it matters is that it was advantageous and opportunitic chance for them to declare a war with us if they wanted to and kudos for them doing so.

but stop attaching reasons that dont make sense. It makes you guys look idiotic and smart(?) at the same time.

Last edited by Zero on 19-02-2003 at 03:13

	19-02-2003 10:01									#72
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Well, making up reasons to go to war is kind of a tenet of the world, as current global situations can attest to...

Besides, if we wait a few centuries in game, someone will come up with the UN to come back and settle this dispute!

	19-02-2003 11:46									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Calc II it doesnt matter if GoW invented a stupid reason to goto war. It is stupid and is so hypocritical, but i think everyone can see that. All it matters is that it was advantageous and opportunitic chance for them to declare a war with us if they wanted to and kudos for them doing so. but stop attaching reasons that dont make sense. It makes you guys look idiotic and smart(?) at the same time.

Explain the "hypocritical" part to me. While it was a lame excuse to go to war it did provide them an excuse as opposed to simply declaring war. Not much better, but it does follow the philosophy of the RL United States.

As a neutral party in this fight, I don't see why Lux members are all so keen on blaming everyone else for their situation, it seems to be one that was mostly your own making.

	19-02-2003 11:49									#74
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Hypocritical because we had a NAP with them, while they declare war on us for breaking a non-existent treaty.

Let me guess: And your cozy little spot on the southern part of the continent all by yourself was a situation of your own making as well, I assume?

	19-02-2003 18:27									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Thrumble Explain the "hypocritical" part to me. While it was a lame excuse to go to war it did provide them an excuse as opposed to simply declaring war. Not much better, but it does follow the philosophy of the RL United States.

OT (for which I'm sorry, as this is a fine thread), but why do you think most other countries find US foreign policy hypocritical? Any excuse is good to go to war, and we can have all the weapons we won't but nobody else should think of getting less then 1% of our capacity or we feel threatened, and must declare war. Oh, wait, let's find ourselves a lame excuse first, so we can at least keep part of our own populace ignorant.

As to the discussion that has been spread out over 'poly on the deals, breaking deals, and the results from this all: it is very interesting, and no matter what the consequences are going to be to parties involved, please keep discussing where you think it went wrong. The rest of us can learn a great deal about this, certainly when it comes to avoiding getting into such a mess.

BTW, 'Where it went wrong' was not intended as 'who is to blame'. This is only superficial... the reasons are deeper then personal grudges.

DeepO

	19-02-2003 20:49									#76
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I suppose one lesson to gleam from these unfortunate turn of events is that HUMANS do not follow the rules like the AI. Very elementary, but that is what it comes down to. Always have a back-up plan, and defense is most important.

True, Legoland has been blessed to have it's own landmass. But we did not know that for many turns. With that in mind, we always had a defensive plan.

	19-02-2003 20:55									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Hypocritical because we had a NAP with them, while they declare war on us for breaking a non-existent treaty.

Interesting that you consider the NAP treaty that expired before we declared war "valid" but the treaty you wrote and both teams agreed to "non-existent".

Curious how it wasn't "not-existent" when you reminded us it was still in effect a few turns before this.

	19-02-2003 22:31									#78
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hmm,

i thougt this is the thread of Neu Demogytica and not of the Chinese or the Ottomans.

	20-02-2003 01:25									#79
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quote: Originally posted by [DG]helios hmm, i thougt this is the thread of Neu Demogytica and not of the Chinese or the Ottomans.

Well... Neu Dem started a thread for "diplomacy" and so GoW and Lux Invicta decided to join in. I would exactly call anything being discussed here of late as "diplomacy", but different people have different definitions for that word

	20-02-2003 02:40									#80
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I think if ND wants control of this thread back, they're going to have to take it by force. (joke incoming in 3... 2... 1...) Though, I guess Lux could try to raze it before they get here... (rim-shot and exit stage left...)

	20-02-2003 06:22									#81
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quote: Originally posted by [DG]helios hmm, i thougt this is the thread of Neu Demogytica and not of the Chinese or the Ottomans.

Fell free to take over our thread.

It seems that ANY thread that can stay at the top of the threads list tends to get posted in frequently, simple because people read it to see the latest post in this forum. If a thread fall towards the bottom it doesn't recieve as many posts.

	20-02-2003 08:31									#82
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Where did ND go? No official talk in the thread.

BTW, GF, Trip, do you want any cheese with that whine?

	20-02-2003 10:11									#83
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We are still alive and be sure we do post something when there is something to say like that we are still alive and that we would do post something when there was something to say like........

	03-03-2003 17:45									#84
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Where did ND go? No official talk in the thread. BTW, GF, Trip, do you want any cheese with that whine?

We have LOTS of Wine, I'm not sure what good a Cheese resource would do us though.

	05-03-2003 00:00									#85
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You could feed that weird cat thing with it.

	05-03-2003 02:15									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Trip You could feed that weird cat thing with it.

Do cats like cheese? Maybe I could try to entice a very large mouse to feed the cat with..........

	05-03-2003 05:47									#87
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Yes, indeed. Big mice are good...

	07-03-2003 00:48									#88
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Well i consider the War between ND and Lux victim has ended. Not quite as i thought it would end but at least the agressor is gone and the World can live in Peace. A real good end for a menace that will be remembered in the Neu Demogyptian history as the Swordsmenpicnicaffair.

	07-03-2003 00:53									#89
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Well, as a not a single blow was landed, can you really consider either side the agressor?

	07-03-2003 01:13									#90
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Lux killed a Demogyptican scout.