14-02-2003 13:06									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper GePap: Now, now. You know that the only way a nation can *properly* counterattack an enemy is only *after* it's had a Pearl Harbor done to it. Never mind that any Pearl Harbors conducted nowadays might not necessarily be done with conventional weaponry ... Gatekeeper

It's better than bombing the sh*t out of another country just to find that there has been no ethnic cleansing going on.

	14-02-2003 13:26									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Interesing enough, the only dangerous tyrant is the US.

China is a far more dangerous tyranny than the US is. You guys really shouldn't sell yourself short; you're still grade A thugs.

	14-02-2003 13:31									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Sava - Since it would be a "rebirth", then they didn't learn it from us. They did learn to build cars though. But what in the hell are you talking about? Since when does self-defense qualify as empire building?

You don't want to bother him with little logical facts like that. It gets him worked up if you do.

BTW Japan has the second largest navy and air force in the pacific. True, it doesn't have transports reserved just for the military but it has one of the largest merchant marines in the world and it has a large fleet of civilian air liners. If it really came to war then the Japanese could convert these into military use. We did it in WW2 so why couldn't they do the same thing?

	14-02-2003 13:34									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger It's better than bombing the sh*t out of another country just to find that there has been no ethnic cleansing going on.

Having actually been there I can honestly say a whole host of war crimes occured in Kosovo. As a good arm chair liberal I'm sure the closest you got was the local library.

	14-02-2003 13:35									#65
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That's a nice sig you got there, Oerdin.

	14-02-2003 13:36									#66
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I stole it from some jerk off.

	14-02-2003 13:39									#67
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quote: I stole it from some jerk off.

	14-02-2003 16:22									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin BTW Japan has the second largest navy and air force in the pacific. True, it doesn't have transports reserved just for the military but it has one of the largest merchant marines in the world and it has a large fleet of civilian air liners. If it really came to war then the Japanese could convert these into military use. We did it in WW2 so why couldn't they do the same thing?

If it comes down to it does the US Navy have mothballed transports the Japanese could buy/lease?

	14-02-2003 16:32									#70
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We have every thing from air craft carriers on down just tucked away waiting for some excuse to be brought back into service. I think they call it the stategic navel reserve or some such.

	14-02-2003 19:36									#71
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If they have a strong enough paratrooper/transport Helo force, and would be able to establish aerial superiority, they would be able to capture a seaport via air, and then use traditional naval vessels to transport equipment.

	14-02-2003 20:02									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Having actually been there I can honestly say a whole host of war crimes occured in Kosovo. As a good arm chair liberal I'm sure the closest you got was the local library.

And a whole lot of war crimes occured in Croatia. And a whole lot of war crimes occured in Bosnia. And a whole lot of war crimes occured in Serbia.

Yeah, it's a ****ed up region in general.

What's wrong with the library?

	14-02-2003 20:18									#73
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N. Korea must be unarmed, and if UN can not unarm it peacefully Japan and USA must unarm it.

	14-02-2003 21:07									#74
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I suspect what is going on here is that Japan is fed up iwth responses of Russia, China and Skor.

US has asked for multilateral talks with Nkor, and Nkor want one on one with US. China and Russia, despite their alleged beliefs in multielateralism, are not supportive of the US position. Everyone seems to want to give Nkor what they want when Nkor sword rattles, Japan is making clear it can play this game as well. Is this giving the region a good scare? - well its about time.

	14-02-2003 22:15									#75
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quote: BTW Japan has the second largest navy and air force in the pacific. True, it doesn't have transports reserved just for the military but it has one of the largest merchant marines in the world and it has a large fleet of civilian air liners. If it really came to war then the Japanese could convert these into military use. We did it in WW2 so why couldn't they do the same thing?

there's a difference between being able to ship your army to friendly harbors and assaulting hostile beaches. N.K. is definitely in the hostile beaches category. You need landing craft in addition to all the car carriers they have.

	14-02-2003 23:26									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger How was the invasion of Afghanistan legitimised?

UN Security Council Resolution 1368

quote: quote: Originally posted by GePap If a state can show serious and credible evidence of an imminent threat, pre-emption is allowed under international law. Cite?

The Caroline doctrine states that "invading" the territory of another state can be justified as an act of self-defence only in those "cases in which the necessity of that self-defence is instant, overwhelming, and leaving no choice of means and no moment for deliberation."

	14-02-2003 23:55									#77
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My my. The Japanese government is certainly becoming more marshall...

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/newse/20030215wo41.htm

	15-02-2003 05:26									#78
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I don't think support for the US in Iraq means much, DanS. They supported us in 1991, so this isn't a huge deal.

Now, if they send troops to help us...

	15-02-2003 06:13									#79
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Are you kidding? Japan paid more for Gulf War I than any other non-Arab state, including the US. They are big contributors and we're going to have our hats out collecting in a month or so.

	15-02-2003 06:22									#80
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quote: Are you kidding? Japan paid more for Gulf War I than any other non-Arab state, including the US. They are big contributors and we're going to have our hats out collecting in a month or so.

I meant that Japanese support for the US on Iraq doesn't really indicate that they are becoming more martial.

Japanese support, particularly financial, is extremely valuable to the US, especially since Germany probably won't be bankrolling us this time around.

	15-02-2003 06:30									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger It's better than bombing the sh*t out of another country just to find that there has been no ethnic cleansing going on.

That's BS. You just need to look at what happened in Bosnia to draw the conclusion on what could happen in Kosovo, if we did not step in.

	15-02-2003 06:51									#82
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I meant that Japanese support for the US on Iraq doesn't really indicate that they are becoming more martial.

Of course I agree. I just thought it was funny how they came out with this position not two days after they threaten NK. Japan's week to be in a bad mood, etc.

Anyway, even though Japan is getting kicked around a lot lately, they're still worth more than France and Germany combined. Important to keep that in mind.

	15-02-2003 06:56									#83
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quote: Anyway, even though Japan is getting kicked around a lot lately, they're still worth more than France and Germany combined. Important to keep that in mind.

I completely agree. The Japanese still have one important quality that the French and Germans seem to have forgotten. It's called loyalty...

	15-02-2003 07:19									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Ned: Why in the world would they develop nukes and long range missles unless they intended to use them under certain circumstances.

They could develop nukes and missiles for the purpose of selling them (to anybody who is willing to pay). And given the state of NK's economy, I suspect that's what's going on.

	15-02-2003 08:38									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Anyway, even though Japan is getting kicked around a lot lately, they're still worth more than France and Germany combined. Important to keep that in mind. I completely agree. The Japanese still have one important quality that the French and Germans seem to have forgotten. It's called loyalty...

Mantra of the unimaginative. Explain why any U.S. ally who disagrees with U.S. policy should still go along with it?

Loyalty must be earned.

	15-02-2003 08:45									#86
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quote: Loyalty must be earned.

Rebuilding Europe after WWII and protecting them for 50 years didn't earn us any loyalty?

The Japanese haven't forgetten all the help America has given them over the years...

	15-02-2003 08:55									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Loyalty must be earned. Rebuilding Europe after WWII and protecting them for 50 years didn't earn us any loyalty? The Japanese haven't forgetten all the help America has given them over the years...

Since when did loyalty entail blindly following an aggressive policy they disagree with?

If helping another nation out is call for eternal loyalty, then it is us who should be kissing French butt, not the other way around.

It's not "disloyalty" to object to America's foreign policy. What a warped sense of loyalty you must have. If your boss was committing acts you found immoral, do you think it would be okay to go along with him out of "loyalty?"

And ask the Japanese how they feel about American soldiers on Japanese territory and see how far their "loyalty" goes.

	15-02-2003 08:59									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Having actually been there I can honestly say a whole host of war crimes occured in Kosovo. As a good arm chair liberal I'm sure the closest you got was the local library.

Sorry grandpa, the burden of proof is on you. If you have solid evidence, I am sure the ICTY will love to hear from you.

	15-02-2003 09:04									#89
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc UN Security Council Resolution 1368

Which clause?

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The Caroline doctrine states that "invading" the territory of another state can be justified as an act of self-defence only in those "cases in which the necessity of that self-defence is instant, overwhelming, and leaving no choice of means and no moment for deliberation."

Has it been formally adopted by the UN?

	15-02-2003 09:04									#90
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quote: Since when did loyalty entail blindly following an aggressive policy they disagree with?

They don't have to blindly follow; all they need to do is stay out of America's way.

quote: It's not "disloyalty" to object to America's foreign policy.

Of course it isn't. It is disloyal to actively oppose American interests, however.

quote: And ask the Japanese how they feel about American soldiers on Japanese territory and see how far their "loyalty" goes.

The Japanese have never risked their alliance with the US over some minor differences over US policy. Only France and Germany are stupid enough to do that.