14-02-2003 18:28									#31
	Increase the size of your Attachments

IF... (and that's a big if) stores have it in stock but are holding it back on IG's command, then I hope a few copies leak out and it gets pirated to high heaven!

This sort of stupid "It's ready, but let's hold it back for the marketing weasels!"- grap needs to be stopped and only the fan-base and buying public can stop it...

But, seeing as how the target (and it looks even less and less like there'll be an earlier than Feb 25 release) is over 1 week away yet, I doubt that most retailers (who seem to have less and less space in their store every day) would even allow MoO3 to sit there wasting space for all this time...Store Room space is just as valuable as shelf space these days....

Hmmm...gotta buddy up with some of the lower software stores to get into their back rooms and get me a copy...

	14-02-2003 19:04									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by MitchDev IF... (and that's a big if) stores have it in stock but are holding it back on IG's command, then I hope a few copies leak out and it gets pirated to high heaven!

I can't tell you what I think of you for making that comment because its not permitted on Apolyton. Needless to say a microbe rates higher in my esteem.

	14-02-2003 19:34									#33
	Tired of ads?

Actually individual stores probably don't have any. Just the massive distribution warehouses with lots of storage. Items can go from warehouse retail outlet in a day or two. At least thats the case with Wal-MArt

	14-02-2003 19:43									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Exactly, QwertyX (easy to type except the jump to the X),

that's another reason why I doubt the "it's in the stores, just not on the shelves" concept...

Grumbold, I don't really care where I rate in your opinion. You mean nothing to me, so your view of me is meaningless...

	14-02-2003 20:35									#35
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Its easier on Non-Us Keyboard ;=)
qwert yx
also dont forget the huge Profit one Distributer could make by selling it before the others...

	14-02-2003 20:53									#36
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yeah, on the IGMoo3 boards, someone mentioned that a store that sells it early could get fined (which sounds lijke a load of bull anyway), but if true, could eat into the early sales profit of a quick release.//

Not familiar with non-us keyboards (well, I've seen a few German ones actually), but it sounds like the xy are adjacent on them...

	14-02-2003 20:54									#37
	Got spare money?

This is GREAT! Because if the (secret awesome retailer) store near me has it, they will say 'Fluff Off' to withholding games, and just put it out, increasing their revenue, making many gamers happy, and counteracting the effects of recession EVERYWHERE!!

	14-02-2003 20:57									#38
	Support Apolyton

So essentialy we are waiting because IG marketing wants to "space out" their releases, if its not one thing delaying the game its another anyway i feel this speculation is becoming irrelevant, the game is out in less than two weeks.

	14-02-2003 20:59									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

It would be a breach of contract to sell the games before release date. Whether the publisher did something about it would be for them to decide. Sales staff selling early to their mates are certainly risking disciplinary action.

	14-02-2003 21:32									#40
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Somebody is going to need to explain the marking thing to me. I'm not sure that I quite understand that angle.

If the game is released before the marketing, and then the marketing comes later...are you saying that less games will be sold in total?

IMO, the only way that could happen is if the game is crap and gets some horrible reviews and is slammed in forums everywhere.

No marketing will help sales at thaat point.

	14-02-2003 23:41									#41
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold It would be a breach of contract to sell the games before release date. Whether the publisher did something about it would be for them to decide. Sales staff selling early to their mates are certainly risking disciplinary action.

Obviously, none of the patrons are going to say anything, since they are getting stuff early, and the seller is making a killing too.

So its win/win for us.

	15-02-2003 00:35									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Publicity is just one facet of production and marketing. If you arrange for the production of 50,000 CD's over 4 weeks in February and sign a contract that gets you the best deal, why break or renegotiate that contract to pay three times as much to start earlier and produce them faster just to get a 2 week advantage? Only reason to do so would be if the beancounters could demonstrate that the faster release would generate more than enough sales to offset the whole of the added cost.

We like to act impatient, but few of us would be prepared to pay $10 more to secure a 2 week advance in the release. A lot more of the public who are not so tightly focussed on this one title would be put off by the added cost. I strongly considered not buying Simcity 4 when it hit the shelves because I noticed it was £5 more expensive than usual and the only way to combat the trend is to refuse to buy.

Additionally, In my (admittedly dated) experience, often shops reorder supplies based on the speed and number of units shipped in the first week or 2. If MOO3 launches in advance of its publicity and had mediocre sales then it would be stuck for weeks unable to sell at a higher rate because the shops allocate it a quantity and shelf space based on that limp early performance. If it ships as its advertising peaks then shops anticipate higher sales, order more, give it more shelf space at eye height and consequently sell more, making it yet more of a success. Few people impulse buy a game tucked end-on in the corner of the bottom shelf.

	15-02-2003 01:13									#43
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold I strongly considered not buying Simcity 4 when it hit the shelves because I noticed it was £5 more expensive than usual and the only way to combat the trend is to refuse to buy.

I'm not sure if it's just here or anywhere else, but C&C Generals was just released, and at Best Buy it is 39.99, same with Sim City 4 -- unless it is just the local store running its own deals. (USD I mean)

MOOIII will be here, all I ever said is they aren't gaining money...which since they aren't selling games, they aren't gaining money.

I think IG wants the game out ASAP though, but they do publish a ton of games...and tied together with Gal Civ (which IG is also publishing I think?) They kinda have this market to themselves --

	15-02-2003 02:09									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by TheMaestro I think IG wants the game out ASAP though, but they do publish a ton of games...and tied together with Gal Civ (which IG is also publishing I think?) They kinda have this market to themselves --

IG is the distributer for GalCiv, Strategy First is the publisher.

	15-02-2003 02:46									#45
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

IG + Strategy First is prolly a pretty darn good combo...Strat First has been making some great war/strategy games.

	15-02-2003 05:33									#46
	Full PM-box? Change here!

go galciv go

ecclipse moo

gotta love the underdog

	15-02-2003 07:01									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Just to add more fuel to the fire, Rantz's comments about the retailers having the game seems to be all but confirmed.

I was at EB today browsing and decided to bug them to see what they had to say. The guy punched it into the computer and Moo3 was in the system.

He told me that this only occurs when they have the games in the warehouses and the shops are about to recieve them. He also said when this happens it usually means that it is, at the very most, a week before the game hits the streets.

So maybe there will be an early release.

	15-02-2003 07:02									#48
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Corentor So maybe there will be an early release.

Legal or otherwise

	15-02-2003 08:01									#49
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Corentor Just to add more fuel to the fire, Rantz's comments about the retailers having the game seems to be all but confirmed. I was at EB today browsing and decided to bug them to see what they had to say. The guy punched it into the computer and Moo3 was in the system. He told me that this only occurs when they have the games in the warehouses and the shops are about to recieve them. He also said when this happens it usually means that it is, at the very most, a week before the game hits the streets. So maybe there will be an early release.

Watch it come out tomorrow while I'm spending ten+ hours on the road with a friend to go deliver a jet ski that he sold on ebay.

	15-02-2003 08:44									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I can't recall many games being released by retail on the weekends...that's their peak shopping period anyway...weekday releases are preferred as they bring in customers who wouldn't ordinarily be in the stores.

	15-02-2003 09:06									#51
	Remove this text

There's supposed to be a huge snowstorm on the Eastern coast of the U.S. this weekend... I probably won't be able to go out and get the store to buy the game (or the game to reach the store) even if it DOES come out this weekend (which it won't).

My bet is mid-way through next week at the earliest... given the lack of signs of it actually arriving in stores, however (there's got to be a shipping clerk who would mention it or something ), I'd guess late next week at the very earliest and far more likely running right up to the February 20s that Rantz told us long ago seemed nearly impossible

oh well.

	15-02-2003 09:54									#52
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Must.. hang... in.... a... little... longer.......

	15-02-2003 12:28									#53
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by TheMaestro IG + Strategy First is prolly a pretty darn good combo...Strat First has been making some great war/strategy games.

Publishing.

	15-02-2003 16:59									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Gunnergoz, here in England games are frequently released at the weekends (usually the friday), and i assume its exactly because it is their busiest time and will therefore have a greater chance of impulse buying. I can see reasons for weekend AND midweek release though, i wonder which is more successful?

	16-02-2003 09:08									#55
	Tired of ads?

I just cant wait for it any longer, I wish I had the game already, but I am going to have to wait with everyone else. I hope they release it soon and stop holding it back!

	16-02-2003 09:40									#56
	Put an end to popups!

Ok, I hadn't read the posts just above my own when I posted my last post

Apparently, the retailers indeed already have the game.

If that's the case, a release early next week IS a possibility.

Let's hope for it.

	16-02-2003 10:09									#57
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Ok, I hadn't read the posts just above my own when I posted my last post Apparently, the retailers indeed already have the game. If that's the case, a release early next week IS a possibility. Let's hope for it.

I wouldn't count on an early release. . . .

	16-02-2003 10:55									#58
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'm betting on a release next Thursday, 2/20. Just a hunch.

	16-02-2003 15:31									#59
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by QwertyX I'd like to put a few thing into perspective if I may. I know only a little about manufacturing from a job I had with Motorala -made them strange little chips that go into these fancy gizmos we love so much for awhile; but I know more about distribution as a former Wally World employee-5 years and two of those as a dept manager. IG had two products that went gold at the same time- Unreal2 and Moo3. Moo3 was late and U2 was on time(as far as I know) U2 was already on the schedule for the "big production line", So the proably either held Moo3 til U2 run was over or moved Moo3 to a "small production line" in order to send out review copies and to start building stock. Also there is this to consider they will most likely sell more U2 than Moo3. i'm sure that was also considered, but I don't know IG's standards of practices so I'm guessing they went with the ever successful corporate model i.e. the allmighty dollar.(btw this is all conjecture but its logical as far as I can tell). When U2 finished it intial run IG probably switched Moo3 to the "big production line" to complete their inital order fullfillment. The next stage in the game is distribution. I'm going to use Wally-world cause I know hgow they work, but its easy to imagine that EB or Amazon uses simliar means. When a product is announced these business use market analysis (i.e. how did similiar products sell in the past, market saturation etc) to figure out how many they are going to need to fufill inital demand. They submit that number to to the manufacturer. IG is most likely contractually obligated to fulfill that order, as well as the orders of all the other distributors. So IG has to guage how quickly they can get the TOTAL amount of all those orders to the distributors so they can ALL get the product on the shelves at the same time. Thats the "release date". No distributor- especially Wal-Mart likes getting "shutout" of product and Wal-Mart especially has a rep in the biz for playing nasty with companies that do. So there is no way that IG is going to shoot itself in the foot- so to speak- by sending to say Amazon and telling them to go ahead and ship before anybody else. Remember that hoo-ha a few years back about the inital release of the PS-2 (I think) when Sony couldn't make enough to ship over here and all the backlash that occured bacause of it. Do you want Moo3 in the same boat? I didn't think so...

Manufacturers have shortages all the time. I can't imagine IG holding back the release of MOO3 to make sure the distributors have enough copies on their shelves (ex. The release of playstation 2, C & C Generals). They may be holding back for some other reason, but it’s not to make sure they have enough copies for all their retailers.

	17-02-2003 00:16									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well, I made it back from my trip and I see that MOO3 has not yet been released. I don't know whether to be happy that I didn't miss it or sad that it still is not yet available.

Hmmmm... okay... how about a little more reckless speculation: Any bets that the game will be released on Tuesday, 2/18/03?