21-02-2003 15:28									#31
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Don't give up, I agree with you so far. EotS and Cyclone for settlers and workers (I don't make a difference, we build next what we need next). Hurricane for a wonder (sigh, but ok...). Tempest can be made a commerce center, as it doesn't have the capacity to be a production center. It can get a Library later. Bolderberg, city #4 and the next city produce military, without any exception, till our immediate need is satisfied.

	21-02-2003 18:05									#32
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Sir Ralph, apart from maybe the wonder (which you know I'm a truely big fan of), we fully agree, on all points. I might have given the wrong impression that I don't value our military, but that is certainly not true. I don't see the point in now starting to build up an offensive force, but it's clear that we need to start working on our defensive forces urgently.

One of the plans to jumpstart this is to add a few workers to our barracks cities, so that our military production gets a boost. Also, I'm hesitating on what to do with Tempest: it is clear that it won't be the best production center, but a superb commerce center. But, we already have the city founded, while searching for other production centers will mean we're going to need to settle one first. It's a bit of a strange thing, building a barracks there will be a waste later on, but the sooner we get our defenses in place, the better. Using it for the moment for worker building, and a lib as fast as reasonable (not asap, but asar seems a decent compromise, but only if we use that growth to add more military production.

I definately agree that our next few cities need to build barracks and troops, not only #4, but also at least one other Southern city (the one close to the whale), possibly even both of them (although the cape city will be better in commerce, IIRC).

I agree on the need for spears everywhere, even if not needed for republic, with one minor exception: I think we are going to need a minimum of 1 spear per city, but in some cases spears positioned outside a city can reach several cities in 1 turn. A spear positioned in EotS once all it's borders are settled has no other use then to be a reserve for the bordering cities, so it better be looked at it like that.

And to nye and Theseus: I can certainly understand your concerns, but aren't we trying to reach a concensus here? I don't particularly trust Vox either, and a UN-sponsored war effort certainly is a thing to take into account when creating plans, but really, what are the chances of that? We should stay the superb neighbour we have been for as long as we don't grossly outnumber them, and I doubt they are going to want to risk our friendship. But yes, it is always a risk, and we should certainly try to keep that risk under control.

For the moment, I think the risk is acceptable. Even if Vox was going to attack us now (or let's say in the next 5 turn or so), they don't have the military power to do it. We're strong to them, so they see they are weak to us. I seriously doubt that any team is going to start a war against us, unsupported (no galleys yet), when they know their military is weak compared to us. It will take superiour force to damage us, and every team knows this.

So, IMHO we're currently safe, and we are trying to keep us safe by seriously commiting cities to barracks and troops. True, part of this is still a plan, we don't have any city that is actively on all-year-round troop training, but we're doing our best to get this asap, and dedicate half of our cities to military.

If this is not enough, please keep voicing concerns, ideas, and consequences, don't give up! You can call both Nathan and myself maybe a little too convinced of the need for (peaceful) expansion, but I think we both have tried to listen, and incorporate as many chances as needed. This has to be a group effort, and not a one-man show. We're not Lux, you know.

DeepO