19-02-2003 11:40									#61
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Ramo,

How the hell can you call FDR a fascist? He was the greatest president for labor in the history of America. He taxed the hell out of business.

edit: fixed puntuation

	19-02-2003 11:53									#62
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Ramo's an anarchist, Duncan

	19-02-2003 12:40									#63
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ah, ok. duh' that's what the flag is for.

	19-02-2003 13:04									#64
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Roosevelt 10 - His accomplishment dwarfed any other presidents in 20th century.
Truman 6 - Nuked Japan, Marshall Plan, Stood up the Commies in Korean War.
Eisenhower 7 - Relatively speaking, American economic power reached the zenith under him.
Kennedy 7 - Space program, handled Cuban Missile Crisis well, "Ich bin ein Berliner" won the hearts of Germans. Start getting entangled in Vietnam; no better in personal life than Clinton.
Johnson 5 - Civil Liberty a great progress, Vietnam War a mess.
Nixon 2 - Destroyed people's trust in the government, Americans remain cynical over the government to this day; fvcked over in Vietnam; only bright spot is the opening to China.
Ford 0 - This fool never got elected.
Carter 1 - Economy a mess, every foreign clowns were sh1tting on us.
Reagan 7 - Revived the American economy and national confidence, screwed the Soviets finally over, and created heap of deficits for his successors to clean up.
Bush I 4 - Snapped defeat from the jaws of victory, "read my lips!"
Clinton 6 - His stupidity in personal life marred an otherwise great presidency. A good actor and liar.
Bush II Incomplete - Handled difficult situations well so far, but Iraq war can either make or break his presidency.

	19-02-2003 13:15									#65
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Lord M,

You have to give Nixon more credit. Americans trusted their government way too much back then. Nixon should get a plus for informing the public on the true realities of government.

	20-02-2003 09:16									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Roosevelt - 9 Truman - 6 Eisenhower - 7 Kennedy - 3 Johnson- 3 Nixon - 5 Ford - 5 Carter - 2 Reagan - 8 Bush I - 6 Clinton - 7 Bush II - incomplete quote: Shi, Truman f*cked up in Korea. He should not have fired McArthur. He should have done what was necessary to win that war. Um... I prefer not to have nuclear armeggedon set off because of some wacked out general .

I'm sorry Imran, but Truman had authorized the use of nuclear weapons if the Chinese sent in more troops or the Russian airforce intervened. Truman, not MacArthur - although he did this at the request of MacArthur.

We could have won that war if we had listened to MacArthur. It is too bad that he had to go public with his policy disputes. But it was Truman's decisions that were causing the friction.

	20-02-2003 10:42									#67
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd No, I don't make this claim. My claim is that Japan would not have attacked the US without US provocations, of which support for China, forward deploying PacFlt and the embargo were a couple of examples. As to being attacked by Germany, this would not have happened if we were actually trying to avoid war, which we certainly were not.

This is one reason why libertarians and liberals do not get along very well -- libertarians refuse to admit that they are insane and need help.

	20-02-2003 10:51									#68
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun This is one reason why libertarians and liberals do not get along very well -- libertarians refuse to admit that they are insane and need help.

So then, liberals are different in that they are capable of admiting they are insane and need help? :P

	20-02-2003 10:57									#69
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Hmm, I'd rate Stalin a bit higher, maybe an A-/B+. Beria was a piece of trash, however. So were Malenkov and Khruschev. Their policies in the future Warsaw Pact(East Germany = Beria and Malenkov, All others = Khruschev) led to the creation of the Warsaw Pact in the first place. Khruschev, Malenkov and Beria are all guilty of arousing nationalism over there, so I give them an F.

	20-02-2003 13:52									#70
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I can't do 1-10 scales. But here they are in 3 broad categories, ranked bst-to-worst in each category.

DID MORE GOOD THAN HARM:
Roosevelt
Eisenhower
Truman (just barely)

DID AS MUCH HARM AS GOOD:
Clinton: A lucky, caretaker president if ever there was one. Our Grover Cleveland.
Johnson (great domestic policies, horrid foreign policy)
Carter (didn't do much of anything, really; his worst failure and biggest success -- Iran and the Camp David Accords, respectively -- cancel each other out)
Ford See Carter

DID MORE HARM THAN GOOD:
Reagan (nice that the Soviets collapsed on his watch, but it doesn't make up for his nightmare domestic and economic policies -- to say nothing of his court appointments)
Kennedy The space program doesn't even begin to make up for our idiotic Cuba policies or his duplicitous treatment of civil rights)
Bush II (For failing to learn the lessons of Reaganomics and for alienating important allies without managing to make new friends)
Bush I For failing to finish the Gulf War; for going back on his promise to help the Kurds, and thus helping insure their slaughter; for massacring Panamanian civilians in order to arrest yet another leader he helped put in power to begin with; for pardoning the Iran-Contra villains)
Nixon (Soooo many reasons)