21-02-2003 11:11									#31
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quote: You spend your entire life learning how to fight and you're going to tell me if someone gives you no other option that you're just going to stand there and let them beat you up?

Self defense is different, in that it is non-coercive. You aren't forcing someone else to either fight for you or pay for your political views on war.

	21-02-2003 11:13									#32
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They are pretty much forcing our hand once they started kidnapping our people and started getting into bed with Al Queda.

I see it as self defense.

These guys have had it coming. :dotitnow!:

	21-02-2003 11:14									#33
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ted, why stop there? lets kill all brown people aroudn the globe who hate the US

	21-02-2003 11:16									#34
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this isn't the place to play a race card. They don't hate the U.S. Most of their terror activities are directed at everybody including the Philipino goverment.

	21-02-2003 11:17									#35
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DF is going to be obtuse again

	21-02-2003 11:18									#36
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dissident, which is exactly why WE shouldnt intervienve

	21-02-2003 11:18									#37
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 ted, why stop there? lets kill all brown people aroudn the globe who hate the US

Do you even understand who these people are and what they have done?

And yeah that was pretty weak playing the race card.

	21-02-2003 11:19									#38
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Should have done it earlier.

	21-02-2003 11:22									#39
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Can someone tell me why this isn't a huge news story like it seems like it should be? The 10 o'clock news has been on for 10 minutes and nothing about it.

	21-02-2003 11:24									#40
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I'm kind of surprised somebody didn't.

	21-02-2003 11:25									#41
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Weird. They may not have picked it up yet?

It's top story on CNN. All special forces so far:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/20/us...mbat/index.html

	21-02-2003 11:26									#42
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It's not like we are going in when nobody wants us to. The philipino goverment supports this action.

Now it would be a different story if they didn't want us there of course.

	21-02-2003 11:29									#43
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 dissident, which is exactly why WE shouldnt intervienve

oh come on! they are active terrorists! You just want us to let them sit there and brood away?

	21-02-2003 11:29									#44
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The reason I am so for this is because these guys are basically a bunch of punks.

They kidnap people and hold them for ransom. THAT'S ALL THEY DO. It's how they make their living. Check out this link which illustrates what they are about. They have shown nobody mercy, and by their own standards deserve none in return:

http://asia.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asia...tage/index.html

	21-02-2003 11:30									#45
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besides, we arent interviening in anything. The US and the Philipino government are doing this as a joint venture to rid the world of this cess

	21-02-2003 11:31									#46
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Well said kman.

	21-02-2003 11:32									#47
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Oh, and here's just an excerpt from that CNN link:

quote: August 25, 2002 - Philippine troops shoot dead a notorious leader kidnapping gang the Pentagon, rescuing a four-year-old girl and her nanny from a week-long captivity

	21-02-2003 11:40									#48
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The Filipino gov't is a bunch of thugs. But far more so are Abu Sayyaf, so I'm not sad to see them go, and I'm not sorry that US military force is being used against them (although I consider it an abuse of power to committ military force outside of Congressional initiative).

The real problem is telling how much of this force will be directed against commie and Moro seperatists (who have very legitimate grievences against the state), as we have tended to do in the past in terms of military "advisors."

	21-02-2003 11:49									#49
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youre just giving them reasons now to come over and **** us up. if we dont meddle like we so often do we arent providing justifyable reasons for them to strike us. sure they may have been dancing aftern 9/11 but they werent responsible for it.

and when will it stop? soon we will be sending over 4,000 marines, then 10,000, and so on and so forth. for what? a corrupt filipino government.

	21-02-2003 11:58									#50
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 and when will it stop? soon we will be sending over 4,000 marines, then 10,000, and so on and so forth. for what? a corrupt filipino government.

nah, this is an easy one. It would be just like taking out a militia here, except the militia here would put up a little bit better of a fight.

	21-02-2003 12:02									#51
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i pray that youre right. i pray that our servicemen dont rape a filipino woman. i pray that there will not be antiamerican sentiment caused by this. because if there is its another nation that has turned against us on the long list of countries.

	21-02-2003 12:07									#52
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MRT144,

Trust me. I've spent a lot of time in the PI. The people will be gratefull.

	21-02-2003 12:30									#53
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I will not shed a single tear for Abu Sayyaf, but does anybody here remember when the first marines went to Vietnam? They supposedly went there in support of a friendly government and the fight was supposed to be an easy one...

Now, the current situation on the Phillipines is different, but do we know exactly how different?

	21-02-2003 12:37									#54
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Totally different situation. Please, people, show some sense of nuance. Just because Vietnam had jungles and this country has jungles doesn't make them the same thing. This is a small band of kidnappers who don't have international support or a large population to draw from. They're proper ****ed.

	21-02-2003 17:16									#55
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The island they're headed for has four million people on it -- all muslim. This could be spun as another western crusade against a muslim (sub)state.

	21-02-2003 19:05									#56
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Well, good luck. The people there support the terrorists seperatists, whatever. The bad guys will vanish into the communities if things get too hot. That will leave marines on search and destroy missions hoping they get attacked so they can bring in the air force.

Derek is right, whatever happens the bastards have got it coming. Remember Mr Burnham the missionary, and nurse Yap, who was doing volunteer work in the Moslem community when she was taken.

	21-02-2003 19:43									#57
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quote: To paraphrase Jon Cenna: Abu Sayef and US Marine Corps are inmates. AND ABU SAYEFF JUST DROPPED THE SOAP.

Yay, a wrestling fan!

	21-02-2003 20:27									#58
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This is in direct opposition to the Philippines constitution. But the government is already using the U.S. constitution for toilet paper, so why should I be surprised when they treat a foreign one the same way?

There will be days of rioting over this. The people in Manila may not like Abu Sayyaf, but they like the idea of being an American colony again even less. They protested the "training mission" we already had over there, do you think they will sit still for an open combat deployment?

	21-02-2003 20:36									#59
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That's why I said this should have been done while they had an American hostage. Much easier to justify in that instance.

	21-02-2003 21:53									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Andrew1999 This is in direct opposition to the Philippines constitution. But the government is already using the U.S. constitution for toilet paper, so why should I be surprised when they treat a foreign one the same way? There will be days of rioting over this. The people in Manila may not like Abu Sayyaf, but they like the idea of being an American colony again even less. They protested the "training mission" we already had over there, do you think they will sit still for an open combat deployment?

Another article I read said that it was illegal for other nations to undertake "unilateral" military operations. This will be in support of the Phillippine military.